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Author Topic: What do you want?  (Read 3241 times)
Reece
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« on: March 25, 2006, 02:26:36 AM »

I'm back, and I really want to code. But I want to make sure I code something that is wanted, so: mortals, Paragons, wiz-second, what do you want? If you have any great ideas, let me know, and I might make them real.  Very Happy
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 06:39:39 AM »

Don't you have any ideas?
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Reece
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 12:45:18 PM »

Yes I do. But now I'm asking for other people's ideas. Do you have any at all?

Don't you have any ideas?
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 03:17:11 PM »

Yes I do. But now I'm asking for other people's ideas. Do you have any at all?


None that I wouldn't put in my own area first.
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Reece
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 10:24:25 PM »

Oh, I had no idea you were a wizard yourself. I don't get what the purpose of your post was, though? To tell me that I don't have enough ideas of my own? Laughing

None that I wouldn't put in my own area first.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 05:39:29 AM by Reece » Logged
Escaflowne
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 02:14:52 PM »

Oh, I had no idea you were a wizard yourself.

I'm not.

Quote
I don't get what the purpose of your post was, though? To tell me that I don't have enough ideas of my own? Laughing

I didn't make a statement, I asked a question.

Don't forget to post on the tourist board when you make new additions, so that people will know to come and re-explore the area.
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Reece
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2006, 02:17:35 PM »

How can you put something in your own area if you're not a wizard? Shocked

I'm not.
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2006, 02:51:07 PM »

How can you put something in your own area if you're not a wizard? Shocked

It was hypothetical.  I have an area on my harddisk and I have had a wizard before.  It is unlikely but not impossible that I will one day have another, thus I do not want to give my ideas to some random wizard that I do not know.

I don't know what kind of suggestions you were expecting.  The best wizards already have an abundance of ideas and a willingness to bring them into the reality.  It's like asking me how to do your job.  If you play the MUD then you should know what a player like yourself would want.

My favourite area is Syrinx'.  Explore it sometime for an example of how I think an area should be made.
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Reece
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2006, 02:56:18 PM »

So you think that by getting input from players and catering to those who will be playing what I create, that puts me below "The best wizards" and is "like asking me how to do your job?" I disagree completely, but each to his own.

It was hypothetical.  I have an area on my harddisk and I have had a wizard before.  It is unlikely but not impossible that I will one day have another, thus I do not want to give my ideas to some random wizard that I do not know.

I don't know what kind of suggestions you were expecting.  The best wizards already have an abundance of ideas and a willingness to bring them into the reality.  It's like asking me how to do your job.  If you play the MUD then you should know what a player like yourself would want.

My favourite area is Syrinx'.  Explore it sometime for an example of how I think an area should be made.
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2006, 03:08:18 PM »

So you think that by getting input from players and catering to those who will be playing what I create,

There's catering and there's creating art.  The artist doesn't consult other people; he already has his own vision.  Even if I was a chef I'd make food according to what I like to eat.  I don't think that players know what they want and that you should give them what you would want instead.  If you don't, your area won't have a pulse and it will merely be another collection of mobiles and unconvincing puzzles.

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that puts me below "The best wizards" and is "like asking me how to do your job?" I disagree completely, but each to his own.

That's trite, but true.
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Ereshkigal
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2006, 07:16:11 PM »

Good heavens, the guy was just asking a general question to be nice to mortals. No one asked for a lecture on art. (If I wanted to learn about art or creativity, I certainly wouldn't turn to a MUD to look for answers.)

Anyway Reece, a few random suggestions:
1) I think that a small newbie friendly quest that gives a basic set of eq as a reward in the end would be great for the MUD. I was just thinking the other day about how some new players feel totally lost since they have absolutely nothing. Banshee's quest is great to help people learn, but something that actually gives a basic set of equipment would be nice. It doesn't have to be very good eq. In fact, I would prefer it if it gave rather poor eq and could be repeated. (Taren's sacrifice quest is there, but it isn't a newbie friendly quest in my opinion. Also, I think you don't get the reward again if you repeat it. A newbie friendly quest would have to be contained in a single area that can be found easily.)

2) Sources of magical healing (i.e. not involving food/soak/tox) are always welcome, particularly ones that heal hp/sp individually.

3) Equipment that gets better with use. There are probably quite a few items like this in the game, but again, more are always welcome. To be more specific, one could have a weapon which you have to get "used to" in order to use effectively. Your skill in using that weapon could improve really slowly (in the sense that you shouldn't even notice the difference in a single session). But it should store your degree of expertise even after you quit so that the next time you get the weapon you don't start from scratch. (Maybe your skill could also decrease if you don't use the weapon for a long time.)  This probably sounds a bit like the knights' weapon skill. That's okay. Razz It could still be fun.

4) Monsters that hunt you all over the MUD can be lethal and fun. Smile

5) Monsters that are sensitive to only certain kinds of damage. Armour that gives you only certain kinds of damage. I know there are things like this around the mud, but I think not enough. I think variety in damage type and sensitivities is not exploited enough in Nanny.

I have never really been the most enterprising of players and nowadays I am even more lazy. So it is hard to say if I will be able to enjoy these things if they are made. But since you just wanted suggestions... Smile

Ereshkigal.

(I suppose I should add a few disclaimers considering how one's intentions can be misjudged. Wink )

Disclaimers:
1) Yes, I do have a wizard. That I offered these vague ideas does not mean that I cannot think them out completely or that I don't know how to code. I just don't want to do it. It does NOT mean that I am just lazy. It means that I prefer to invest my energy elsewhere. It also does not mean that I am sure I won't develop my area further or that these are ideas I wouldn't like to implement in my own area. It is just that I can afford to be generous with my ideas because my mind is creative enough to come with more if I need them.

2) These ideas may not be the most brilliant. They aren't meant to be. I just tossed them out because someone seems to have the enthusiasm to code and that's a good thing. I am just trying to encourage. I just said what sprang into my mind right away. It would be a bad idea to use these to estimate the level of my creativity.

3) It is quite possible that things that I have suggested already exist in the MUD. I don't explore much.
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 06:36:19 AM »

Good heavens, the guy was just asking a general question to be nice to mortals. No one asked for a lecture on art. (If I wanted to learn about art or creativity, I certainly wouldn't turn to a MUD to look for answers.)

That's a funny thing to say, because every area is implicitly a work of art.

Quote
1) I think that a small newbie friendly quest that gives a basic set of eq as a reward in the end would be great for the MUD. I was just thinking the other day about how some new players feel totally lost since they have absolutely nothing. Banshee's quest is great to help people learn, but something that actually gives a basic set of equipment would be nice. It doesn't have to be very good eq. In fact, I would prefer it if it gave rather poor eq and could be repeated. (Taren's sacrifice quest is there, but it isn't a newbie friendly quest in my opinion. Also, I think you don't get the reward again if you repeat it. A newbie friendly quest would have to be contained in a single area that can be found easily.)

I think Reece would have to open a separate area closer to green for this to serve its purpose.  His area is tricky for a newbie to find and enter.  And it is filled with nasty monsters.
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Carrion
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2006, 02:33:48 PM »

I'm back, and I really want to code. But I want to make sure I code something that is wanted, so: mortals, Paragons, wiz-second, what do you want? If you have any great ideas, let me know, and I might make them real.  Very Happy
Welcome back, young one Smile

Unfortunately I don't have much to contribute, my ideas come painfully slow, and I implement them even slower, but you should really check out the threads about how to make Nanny a better place for newbies (who later on will grow up to power-players, of course). Like adding a way for normal players to give n00bs some sort of small quests. Browse the forum, there were several interesting ideas, methinks!
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 06:23:39 PM »

Welcome back, young one Smile

Unfortunately I don't have much to contribute, my ideas come painfully slow, and I implement them even slower, but you should really check out the threads about how to make Nanny a better place for newbies (who later on will grow up to power-players, of course).

Really?  I thought most become either achievers or explorers, or even more commonly, chatters/spammers (who look down upon power-playing).  I spend more time discovering the best eq/power combinations than I do actually using said items/powers.

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Like adding a way for normal players to give n00bs some sort of small quests. Browse the forum, there were several interesting ideas, methinks!

Your area was the first area I visited on Nanny.  I followed the directions on the newbie booklet.  Unfortunately the directions were so long and complicated that I gave up trying to follow them after getting past Everlaster.  I attacked Echtor and due to a few unlucky hits on his part concluded that he was a weak monster before leaving the room. Smile

I think there are more than enough places for newbies, considering that newbie-dom is so short-lived on Nanny.  The only thing missing for them is what Ereshkigal suggested; a free eq dispenser of some sort.  Aleea's area had such a thing and I always got my first lot of eq from there.  I remember killing the orcs and the witch repeatedly.  I miss that area.

My favourite areas are those that stress a wizards' personality and don't look copied.  There are some areas that I would consider to be very good quality, yet I don't like them.  There are others which I think are very poor quality, but I enjoy the sense of existence they exude.  And then there are the insipid clones.  The ideal area would have both the right sense of existence and a high standard of quality, but in regard to the former you can't please everybody, so you should just please yourself.  That is the message I was trying to convey to Reece.

I'll toss in some ideas here.

Rewarde ingenuity (trying something that people would seldom think of trying).  Some examples would be: using an obscure command to gain access to something, combining items together without being hinted to try it, examining an item in the room by its full name rather than an abbreviation, killing a monster by healing it, polymorphing in order to reach a difficult place (I HATE it when I turn into a frog and still get told I can't enter the hole or whatever - a wizard should check for this possibility), checking for an item that doesn't even exist in your area and has to be obtained elsewhere in the MUD (e.g. checking for climbing tools to descend a cliff), sipping a potion instead of drinking it in order to get a smaller effect, smelling an edible item instead of eating it to gain an effect, having a certain artifact reach its full potential when used in a very unique way such as when used with a certain guild power...

Make challenge monsters.  I love the challenge of killing a seemingly unkillable monster, especially on my own.  You can go crazy here.  Give it 5000 hp while making it impossible to deal more than 2hp of damage to it at a time, and make it deal 100 damage blows every single round.  Maybe invent a way to overcome it easily by doing something clever.

Uniques with an integrated theme.  These are tough to come up with.  I much prefer an item with an interesting theme about it than something with random drawbacks slapped on without rhyme or reason.  Pay attention to the theme of guilds if you want to cater to a particular guild.  Vikings are hardy and tough, lepers are fragile but carry a hidden power within them, darks and vampires are swift and accurate, etc.

Make monsters appropriately powerful.  I seem to be of the unique opinion that most monsters are too tough in this game - that is, the average level for a monster is too high.  People see things from the interests of a high level auto-pilot killer (which is the majority) and so anything remotely rewarding to kill they think has to be above level 15.  I think the average monster level could be reduced a great deal without your area suffering.  Humans should be able to go as low as level 1.  When you do put in good "money" and "alignment" kills, it should actually be satisfying for a player to have detected them.  Try to imagine that the average player is around level 10, even if they are not, and then you should gain a better perspective on what constitutes "powerful", "challenging", "weak" and "super tough".  The more "worthless" kills you put in your area, the more likely the admin will let you put in a really cool kill with lots of money and an extreme alignment, since the others serve to counter-balance and camouflage the valuable kill.  Maybe make monsters more scarce by making them appear randomly, or one out of 5 resets.  Oh, and if you really want to challenge yourself, never, EVER put a guard in your area.  It can be done believe it or not.  Guards go in castles, but don't spread them around like confetti because you don't have any better ideas.
Instead of putting a guard in front of that chest in your castle containing a neat potion that heals you over time, why not put it on a hill surrounded by 40 small but dangerous level 3 goblinoids?  You could even have this scene appear once per reboot, thus allowing you to make the potion even more powerful.  The more scarce something is the better it can be... up to a point.  Also bear in mind that armour is more beneficial against a hoard of low level monsters than a single high level monster, since the damage reduction is amplified by the number of hits received.

Make extremely hard-to-find items.  I'll let you think of ways to make this happen.

Make sprawling dungeons with traps and tricks.  I've yet to see something with that D&D-esque quality in NannyMUD, though some places come close.  I want to see a place that I can spend an hour or two exploring without being able to leave to heal and rarely needing to because slowhealing is practical for once.  Again, this isn't possible when most people think a challenge has to be above level 15.  You'd be surprised what counts as challenging when it isn't possible to zip to green to heal up.  Make a remote place without an easy way back and some "tough" monsters that are killable for a medium level player.  Give people a reason to bring portable healing along with them for once.  Portable healing is painfully expensive and useless in 99% of instances.  This can change if you create a place that requires endurance and evokes a feeling of wondering whether you'll ever see the daylight again.  Give a fat reward along the journey. (Look at Durlag's Tower or Watchers Keep from the Baldur's Gate series for an idea of what I'm talking about).  Collapses of rubble, one-way portals, delayed crossing of landscapes, boats, ships and dragon-flight, can all contribute to the remoteness of a place.

Make time-based effects, e.g. werewolves only appear on the full-moon, vampires only come out at night, the portal to hell only opens at the stroke of midnight, leaves fall in autumn... even the druidic celebration days can have a purpose in the workings of your area.

Learn exactly how the inner mechanics of the game work.  Do you know exactly how drinking and eating effects your healing rate, or how being wet affects it?  Find out.  Do you know how damage is derived from weapon class and dexterity?  Find out.  Do you know what limits there are on the number of hits you can perform at once, or how to circumvent this limit?  You need to know all these things if you care about coding the most useful, interesting, and balanced items.

Write beautiful descriptions.  It can make a world of difference to the feel of your area.  Remember that less is often more (provide a skeletal description with short but powerful adjectives - let the player's imagination fill in the rest), and that the MUD has its own set of cliches.  Also never dictate to a player what he is feeling, or what his opinion of something is.  This is just bad manners if nothing else.  And don't EVER write something that is meta-game, e.g. "This temple is unsuitable for anyone below level 15."  I'm looking at you, Gogo.

This is my idea of a good description:
"A plain iron sword with a cold shimmer surrounding it.  The hilt is made of black leather, and does not possess a cross-guard.  Your skin prickles as your eyes rest on it."  It is brief, subtle, and appropriately creepy.

An example of a cliche would be starting a description with "You" or "Your".  Don't feel guilty, every wizard does this.  I set a challenge up for myself once never to put either of these words in the long description of a room I was writing, just to see what I'd be able to come up with instead.  Try it sometime.  You might be surprised.

When describing something, don't draw attention to something that is mundane.  For instance, don't draw a players attention to some rocks by saying they look like an ogre chewed them for breakfast. This is unusual and snatches their attention for a second longer than usual, but its just a bunch of rocks and increases the frustration level when exploring.  This is like a dog rising to the scent of a buscuit and then not finding one.  Don't put that scent in unless there's a treat of some sort at the end (it doesn't have to be powerful or beneficial, just interesting and purposeful).

Make every room count.  I'm opposed to "connection rooms" where their only purpose is to make the area feel bigger than it is.  Since rooms can be traversed instantly this is pointless.  You can convey as much space as you like in a single room (see the road to Bromordia, which has broad expanses of farmland included in a single description).  The only exception is when you want to deliberately convey an emotion - particularly suspense.  My favourite area for suspense is Giltas'.  Go check it out sometime but don't be surprised if you get killed, or at least scared.  Pet's cave is another example of a suspenseful set of rooms (though they also serve another purpose...).

Probably the most important of all: play the game.  Try different approaches of playing for a time, so you know what all the different playing styles feel like.  Try out all the guilds and see how far you can get.  Visit as many areas as you can.  This is a sure way to find out what the game might be lacking.  Maybe there not enough interesting spells, e.g. ones that disorientate you or make you spam, or magical scrolls and potions?  Perhaps not enough spellcasting monsters, or creatures with freaky powers like petrification (causing fake ghost)?  Are there not enough containers in the game with vast capacity but funky drawbacks like a spellpoint cost for inserting items or only accepting certain classes of item?  Not enough monsters that have damage resistance and sensitivites?  No powerful rings or gloves in the game?  Can having hair have a higher purpose?  Do the vikings not have an uber-item fitted to them yet?  Every time you think of something that you'd think would be cool but isn't in the game, remember it.

Play other games.  It will increase your pool of knowledge and experience which you can then draw upon for inspiration.

Use comedy.  It helps.  That and people sharing your sense of humour.  Typo's area made me laugh a few times, and Meep's is fairly funny as well.  Some other areas are not so funny but contain some sardonic humour.  This is a good way to inject your personality into an area.
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Escaflowne
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2006, 02:27:48 AM »

An example of a cliche would be starting a description with "You" or "Your".

Someone would rightly call me an idiot for saying this since I forgot to explain the reasoning for it.  It is because when you use these words it draws the players' attention to their self, but that might be their self outside of the MUD.  In which case it wrecks the immersion.
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