Nanny dying?

[Fenix]

Seems like Nanny is losing ground every passing year
This is truly a sad picture ... i mean ... is it possible for Nanny to even die
at a certain point? Horrible  

There were certain debates in certain guilds and clubs about this. What can we do to keep the game alive and enjoyable. Some think we should modify the game structure thus making it more attractive for certain active and somehow old players but gaining practically nothing in terms of population.
I'm curious and dazzled in the same time. If you open the http://www.topmudsites.com site you'll see some muds with enourmous player peaks (some of them allowing multiplaying though) but with no substantial extra features to justify their top positions.
I think one of nanny's major problems is advertising. Is there even a way to vote for it in those ranking sites? are there nanny banners at least on the players personal sites?
Advertising is everything. We can't let this beautiful game die and passively watch other inferior muds growing
Nor it's a solution changing and morph it into a puny clone. the game it's highly original and with great potential. We just have to show it to the world.

[Carrion]

Good news I guess... I thought all MUDs were losing players, but if some MUDs can attract new players, Nanny should definitely be able to also. Can't say I've tried that many different MUDs, but I really like Nanny and its diversity.

I've got the 'advertise Nanny' on my agenda for some time, but I haven't done much about it, apart from a little survey on a game news group...

Here I guess we all can do more, but then it's important that a newcomer can get into action quickly. The 'newbie line' is a good idea, from another  thread.  

One problem with helping out newbies, is that there seem to be some non-newbie players that act very newbieish to gain some easy XP/gold/whatever, and this have made me a bit cautious about giving out money for example.

Anyway, spread the word, but please, no lamers, eh

[Kymn]

One alternative to handing out money, that also is fun for the newbie, is to come up with small 'quests' like here you get "20 gold, buy a rope and bring it to me", then you give em some gold, then they usually ask if there's anything else they can do, then you can say, get a level first, then I got an important job for you, etc. I had a newbie digging up and clearing up worms at the trashpile across from the milkbar in no time, and he said he was having a blast.

We could brainstorm here what could be good 'player-quests' for newbies.

Buying a rope was not so good, since the shop with the ropes and backpacks are not on the map, and it is a fairly important shop to know about, but you could say it like this:
"If you stand in the village shop, in 3 moves you will reach the Adventurers' Outfitters, buy a rope and bring it to me."

Another:
"I need some cheese that only can be found inside the Blanka's newbie area, bring me 5 pieces of cheese and you'll get <coins or equipment>. The location of the area can be found in your newbie booklet."

"I need a special wand that is rumoured to be in the village trashpile across from the milkbar in the village. The trashpile can be reached by moving 3 times from green. You will need a shovel that can be found in the Adventurers' Outfitters shop"

etc

Edit: a newbie line is a good idea, a line where experienced players can easily join/leave to help with any questions for a while.

[Fenix]

One problem with helping out newbies, is that there seem to be some non-newbie players that act very newbieish to gain some easy XP/gold/whatever, and this have made me a bit cautious about giving out money for example.

Indeed it's painfull giving up 10k from your 2M hard earned coins  

Newb line IS a good idea. Also a free share room for the adventurers where everyone can come and donate something useful for the newbs(except Carrion ofcourse   )
Player quests won't stop fake newbs but i don't think this is such a big problem at the moment. Even lamers can be educated  
We need more players or soon the wizards will be the only ones around.
And being a god without believers is no fun  

[Carrion]

Indeed it's painfull giving up 10k from your 2M hard earned coins  

Bah! Carrion has about 40k I think AND can't give any of it to newbies Seriously, it's obviously not out of risk of going broke or anything, instead it's the way I am, in RL and in Nanny. I just can't stand people that tries to get stuff for free pretending to have a worse RL/Nanny life than what is actually true.

Kymn's idea about 'player quests' is very interesting, hopefully can more players make newbies' lives more interesting and rewarding!

[Morild]

I think Kymns idea is excellent! When I started muddig I didn't care much for money, I didn't know what to use it for, seriously how many milkshakes can you drink at once?... I wanted to learn how to PLAY the game good, how to find things, move around, interact with others and so on. I think that is the clue to get new dedicated players, showing them what the game is about and all the posibilities this game represent.  Throwings money at someone does not help (the only once who want that are those pretendig to be a newbie cause they are lazy... atleast that is what I think.)

(sorry for the poor english but I am in a little hurry)

[Snafu]

Aye, newbie line is definitely a good idea. I like the player quest ideas too. The player quests could be much easier to implement with a dedicated player base of older players helping out the newer ones. We also need to GET the newbies to the game. A good idea would be to brainstorm for lots of different ideas that these quests revolve around. The best things these quests can do is get the new players to explore the mud and see how much is out there. Money doesn't help a newbie as much as experience and FRIENDSHIP. A mud revolves aroud communication and friends in the game. That is always what kept me logging into Nanny.

/Snafu

[Kymn]

Just to add to the discussion, player quests does not have to be restricted to newbies only, it's fairly easy to create an adventure for a higher level character. Tools like dannocs safe arena can help to create a truely enjoyable adventure.

But back to newbie ensnaring. If we had a newbie line, we could use it to give challenges to newbies, for rewards, gold or loot. Who came up with the newbie line idea btw, does the admins know about it?

[Yavathol]

Great Ideas here.  

If one of you wizzes can get a Newbie line implemented I'd be happy to be on it, work with new players and create and give player quests.  

To be honest, I've never fully understood why this Mud didn't have a newbie line in the first place.

[Snafu]

They probably thought all newbies being in Adventurer's Guild when they first logged in would negate need for newbie line...

There is one major issue with that:

It is a guild and players can only be in one guild at a time. This causes lack of higher level characters because most players think they need to be in a guild OTHER than Adv Guild to be someone (which we all know is nowhere near true).

The newbie line would probably be best implemented as a club in which anyone can join so that the more established players can help newbies.

/Snafu

[Yavathol]

I think there's some more subtlety involved as well.  Being on a line across guilds doesn't only provide the opportunity for new players in the Adventurer's Guild to have more higher level players to interact with, it also begins to foster that other elusive element that I have heard referred to as well - partying.  

Granted, there are some guilds that do well when several members band together to pursue common causes, but it seems to me that all guilds that I have played can be complimented by members from other guilds in new ways entirely.  This starts by having open communication across those guild lines and, outside of a very few club lines, this really doesn't happen.  

I would imagine that initiating a newbie line, even if it was through a newbie club, you would find that not only would a higher percentage of new players stick around longer, but that they would also begin to understand the benefits of working with others.  We, as a community, could win in two ways.

Just my two cents worth,

[Maggs]

In my experience, the Mud is on the whole Newbie unfriendly. That is the case from the top down and vice versa. When asking why other Muds fare better than this one when it comes to keeping Newbies playing for more than 5 secs, you only have to try playing those other Muds.

On those, other players try and contact new ones and give assistance - rather than smart arse remarks. Wizards (and particularly admin), greet you when you start and try and get help for you/make you welcome - rather than shouting unfunny remarks to newbie questions.

When I came back here, I kept on playing largely in spite of the attitude of other 'experienced players'. RTs were no better than any other players, well need I say more.

A Newbie club would be a good idea and, if it contained Newbie quests, all the better. It would need to be incorporated into the game though, individuals trying to give mini quests just seems patronising to me.

I tend to help new players in the Cult mainly - which is further down the line than Newbies usually - but its not my role to improve things - you need to build it to make them come.

M

PS wouldn't parties be a good idea? Yeah - I remember them once.

[Yavathol]

In my experience, the Mud is on the whole Newbie unfriendly. That is the case from the top down ...
When I came back here, I kept on playing largely in spite of the attitude of other 'experienced players'. RTs were no better than any other players, well need I say more.

You know, I've been thinking about this and you are absolutely right.  There seems to be this culture, present in many MUDs but pervasive and overwhelming on Nanny, where players act as though having been around longer somehow makes them better - players, people, you name it.  I remember encountering that a lot as a new player which makes me wonder why I stuck around at all, and I've not only seen it as a pervasive problem still, but I've found myself getting suckered into the mentallity as well.  Granted, I haven't berated a newbie for the mere fact that they weren't around in 2000 or something, but I have found myself buying into the idea that being around a while means you must know something about the MUD - which is just not true for several reasons, none of which I wish to go into now.

Thinking about it from this perspective, however, suggests that a huge portion of the problem is not the new graphics games - those seem to be leaching old players as well - but rather that when new players do sign in  they become frustrated by the attitudes of those they find here.  It may be something that seems as innocent as discussing what the MUD was like back "in the day" but it implies to the new players that they've missed all the good things and that they will never be able to achieve the levels and accomplishments of players who started playing when the MUD first started.  
On the other hand, I've also seen older players brandish their longevity against newer players as if it were some kind of badge of honor.  This is the type of behavior that will most effectively chase off new players and lead to the demise of the MUD as a whole.  Does it matter when a player first started in Nanny?  Does their level of knowledge or achievement somehow tie into the number of years ago that they discovered the MUD?  The obvious answer is not at all.  Again, examples of why these aren't true are already posted elsewhere, so I won't bother to repeat it here.  

What this really means though, and feel free to call me a cynic, is that a newbie line won't be helpful if there are people joining it simply in order to stroke their own ego by putting new players down.   Don't think this won't happen, it happens now and I know it's why several of the new players I met in the past year did not continue with Nanny.

[Maggs]

For me, the creation of a Newbie club would mark a commitment to improving things in that regard. If it was just a line, then I agree that it would become just another source of sarcasm.

If, however, it was led and monitored by an admin - and if membership was restricted to individuals that want to help (like yourself) - and if membership was rewarded with a special mortal status which over-wrote that of paragon in todays terms - see how attitudes would change!

For me, attitudes can be changed by making the game reward those that behave as we would like - if you build it they may come - and stay.

I also passionately beleive that the admin should look at party play. The times I shared partying with Gangrene, Iznogoud, Magicchild, Benyamin and many others are some of the best that I have had here - as Snafu said, communication is everything.

M

[Kymn]

A newbie club would be excellent, with a bit of effort it could provide support for player quests, from both the newbies and the experienced players perspective. Toplists for both sides could be made to encourage participation from both sides.

Encouraging parties is also something that would greatly enhance the mudding experience, me think, as we discussed on the other note http://spamfunet.com/nanny/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187, where Snafu clearly offered himself to code it <nudge Snafu>

Anyways, anyone who takes command over these two projects have my admiration and support (I offer my help in case it is needed).