Search or not?!?

[Carrion]

I have generally always used 'search' in my area to let people examine the rooms/things more carefully. But lately I've been a little in Mirage's area, and his usage of the ordinary 'examine' feels great! That is, instead of having to 'search' stuff, you only 'examine' them, and if there are some hidden stuff you detect it and most of the time (always?) you also pick it up... I am almost turning around in favour of 'examine' vs 'search' now, what about the rest of you?

I'll make it a poll, but feel free to elaborate a bit too (naming areas etc).

[ladychris]

As a player i use "search" a lot and usually i get a bit annoyed if it doesnt work since i remain with the doubt the wizard just wrote a nice scenery without any deepness to it. (Or -even worse- the wizard used strongly sintax depending commands).
There are however some exceptions and Mirage's great area is one. I can easily play with "exa" as well, when exa gives results

As a wizard i would use both. It makes sense to search a cabinet, since just examining it would probably make you miss important details, but i would not search a wall (unless the wall is so dark you cant see details on it *hint hint*). The two verbs have a different meaning, so why not doing the right action in the right situation?

As for the auto-pick-it-up, i can find it very convenient as a powerplayer, since it spares me time, not necessarily as an explorer. Again there are cases in with it makes sense, while in other you should have the option to leave the found stuff where it is.

[Hewe]

In theory, one should first "examine" everything and then "search". Areas are so different from each other...The very best areas have an answer for everything you "examine", even if you find nothing, you can see the work behind it, considering you examining and describing the object even if only to say "you can forget it", instead of "You see nothing special".

No matter how much you know an area...if you are looking for something, not knowing exactly what you have to do, you have to "search" after examining because you cant be sure if in some case the wizard made it that way. One common answer for that will be then "what?"

I agree that the ideal is when you get a hint for examining or searching something when you first "examine" that object as a whole.

Carrion, I think I learnt the "search" command in your newbie area

[Yavathol]

From time to time I have been known to explore a little around Nanny.  Not often, just a little    

In my explorations, this very issue has been quite a bane and a source of frustration.  On the one hand, it seems that the obvious thing to do is to examine features in a room first (too bad some have no description under search).  On the other hand, as Ladychris already pointed out, some items need to obviously be searched in order to be fully appreciated.

I think Mirage has done an excellent job of marrying these ideas together and his area is one of the better ones when it comes to dealing with this.  Andra's area also has some nice features where you can get different results based on searching or examining the same items.  The ideal seems to me to have something in the examine description that could stimulate the intrepid explorer to do a further search when it is indicated.

Personally, I think both should be used in an area because one of the most frustrating things that I encounter is when an object is seen in the longdesc, but , when I examine it I am told that it isn't there.  Even more frustrating if then doing a search of that item would turn up some other description that begs to be examined - and can't be.  Drives me batty and is a certain way to keep me from praising an area.

Thinking about it more specifically now though, I can see where I may have missed things in the past by not doing both - perhaps I should just make an alias so exa returns both examine and search of the string in question?  After all, it would make sense to find a chest and, once open, getting a list of contents from examine - but not finding the false bottom until a real search is done.  I can think of at least one or two examples where such things exist in the game, but I honestly haven't checked everywhere for them.

Ah well... just my thoughts on it anyway - use both.

[Malan]

I had only been at Nanny for less than a week when I made an alias to examine and search - I thought everyone would have done that.

I've only just started exploring Mirage's area. I fell into a trap right away - many times I'm just too curious

[Carrion]

Carrion, I think I learnt the "search" command in your newbie area

Glad to hear that, it really is rewarding for a newbie to use 'search' somewhere in my newbie area

[Malan]

I also learned alot from your newbie area, Carrion Thanks

[Escaflowne]

These aren't mutually exclusive, so I assume the vote means "search and examine or just examine". In that case I vote the former, though it really depends on the area. When going for depth I think a wizard should also try to use other verbs as well as search.

[Carrion]

When going for depth I think a wizard should also try to use other verbs as well as search.

Definitely, like 'listen' in another thread Seriously, I like it when you can DO other things too, but it should be pretty obvious in every single room WHAT you can do... It's not much fun having your client do 'listen;smell;search;scrutinize;whatnot...' in every room! But if there are flowers, 'smell' would definitely be something you would be able to do, for added depth. (Once again, DON'T 'listen' just because it seems like you could...)

[Yavathol]

(Once again, DON'T 'listen' just because it seems like you could...)

Yeah, gotta be careful rising to that bait  

Being able to do other things in a room is always nice, but the fact is that for most players the thrill of playing "guess what syntax the wiz was thinking of here" wears off real fast.  Personally, I like consistancy.  I want to be able to walk into a room and "exa chair" and actually get an in depth description of the chair that is mentioned in the longdesc.  I don't think I should get a null response to that only to find that if I done "search chair" instead - or worse "xyzzy chair" - I would have learned something more.  That's not just irritating, it breaks the whole feel of the game.

Now, if you think that sounds like an extreme example (expecially the xyzzy part) I can promise you I have found several areas that are just like that.

And for Pete's Sake!  Remember Chekov's law - if you show swords hanging over the mantle in the first act, you had dang well better use them before the end of the second!  Translated to a Mud - if you take the time to mention that there's a bed in the room during the longdesc, there should be a return for "exa bed" other than "You can not find bed here."  Talk about irritating.

Ok, of my soap box.

[Carrion]

Translated to a Mud - if you take the time to mention that there's a bed in the room during the longdesc, there should be a return for "exa bed" other than "You can not find bed here."

You're way off here, mate! That would give you 'You see nothing special.'!

[Escaflowne]

(Once again, DON'T 'listen' just because it seems like you could...)

Yeah, gotta be careful rising to that bait  

Being able to do other things in a room is always nice, but the fact is that for most players the thrill of playing "guess what syntax the wiz was thinking of here" wears off real fast.  Personally, I like consistancy.  I want to be able to walk into a room and "exa chair" and actually get an in depth description of the chair that is mentioned in the longdesc.  I don't think I should get a null response to that only to find that if I done "search chair" instead - or worse "xyzzy chair" - I would have learned something more.  That's not just irritating, it breaks the whole feel of the game.

There's an obvious solution to this: have everything work. exa chair, search chair, look under chair, climb chair, stand on chair, sit on chair, move chair, kick chair, etcetera. And give a different response for each one, so it doesn't get dull.

[Carrion]

There's an obvious solution to this: have everything work. exa chair, search chair, look under chair, climb chair, stand on chair, sit on chair, move chair, kick chair, etcetera. And give a different response for each one, so it doesn't get dull.

This is of course a nice feature in a 'normal' area, but I really don't want this in a quest area, 'cause then you would have to do 100 verbs for every single piece of (possible) item in every room, so you don't miss out on a clue or an object needed in the quest... But as added depth and 'colour' to an area, I'm all for it... Not that I will add 100 possible commands for every object in my area though

[Escaflowne]

This is of course a nice feature in a 'normal' area, but I really don't want this in a quest area, 'cause then you would have to do 100 verbs for every single piece of (possible) item in every room, so you don't miss out on a clue or an object needed in the quest... But as added depth and 'colour' to an area, I'm all for it... Not that I will add 100 possible commands for every object in my area though

I don't know where this "100 verbs per item" came from. I mentioned 8, and I think there should be on average about 3 per item. I don't think there should be a command for every conceivable verb, only the most obvious ones.

[Snafu]

Don't forget that sometimes the exa can be misleading...

ie...if you have a book in your inventory *cough, book of quests, cough*, then exa book, gives you that book.

Don't forget to 'exa book in room'.

Hehe.

/Snafu