About Wizarding

[Candybarr]

I'm not sure if this forum is about nanny or this site, so i'll just post this anyway.  I don't think that people should have to go through 20 levels, 2 millions nanny points, 20days playingtime and a year of existence just to become a wizard.  People who just wish to code, therefore the best wizards, can't get enough xp to become a wizard, whereas the people who thirst for textblood, therefore those (IMO) unfit for wizardry, are able to become a wizard a lot sooner.  Please, tell me if I've gone mad and this seems fair to you.

\_..oO*Oo.._/-Candybarr-\_..oO*Oo.._/

[Yavathol]

Well, although you do raise an interesting point, the system as it currenly exists is actually fairly new.  Not having a wizard myself, I can't say a whole lot about it but I do think it helps to dissuade people who do not have a true passion for Nanny from wizarding.  Besides, I expect it takes a lot of time on the part of the new wizard's sponser and I certainly wouldn't want to invest that much time just to have someone fade away, much less chance of that happening if the new wiz has some actual attachments in the game.

I do seem to recall that there is still the option of solving all the quests, although I am not 100% certain that still exists, it used to be an option before.

By the way, there seem to be a few potential choices missing from your poll.

[Russ]

First of all, I'm not sure that the solving all the quests option is still valid, although by the time you have solved them all, you may well have surpassed the time online and xp requirements anyway  

I can see the problem from both sides...    

From the admins point of view, they don't want just anyone to be able to become a wizard, they need to make sure that you are familiar with what already exists in Nanny, as well as have some experience of what the game is about. Also, as Yavathol said, they want to make sure new wizards don't just disappear within a few months.  There is also the issue of people in the past becoming wizards in order to cheat... *gasp*

From the players point of view who wants to become a wizard, I can see how frustrating it can be having to satisfy requirements that may not seem to make sense, when all you want to do is code up your area.

Obviously the requirements do work, as wizards do seem to stay and not disappear, by the ratio of wizards to mortals that seem to be on at any one time!   However, I'm not sure that the requirements do anything to prevent wizards who aren't suited to becoming a wizard doing so (because they don't have the right skills, be that coding or idea wise). And they may well put potentially really good wizards off becoming so...

I'm not sure what the answer is unfortunately... there obviously needs to be some requirements for becoming a wizard, but what they should be, and whether they should be different from what it is now, I don't know...  *shrug*  (not much help am I!)

[Candybarr]

I can see both sides of this, buy I can also see that there are more ways to solve these problems.  Why not make it so that the mortal needs three wizards to recommend him/her/it, and then no objections to him/her/it wizarding? Or why not give the sponsor power to deplore him/her/it back to mortal (or paragon, if they were such) and ban him/her/it from wizarding again (ban modem, even)?  I see many ways to solve this, and extremely high requirements is not one of them.  

Please respond.


\_..oO*Oo.._/-Candybarr-\_..oO*Oo.._/

[Yavathol]

I don't disagree in the least.  There are plenty of other ways that this could be resolved, and like most things in the world, I don't believe the status quo to be the ideal.  I am not sure that I would think of most of these requirements as really being extraordinarily high, however.

Of course, the real downside of the current system is that by the time an individual character meets the reqs, the player should be rather attached to them.  Take my own predicament.  I easily fulfill all the reqs to apply for wizardhood, but if I became a wizard it would mean I would have to walk away from many of my accomplishments as a mortal and I am just not willing to do that.  So, even though I have put in my time, know the Mud inside and out, and have permanent attachments all over the community, I would have to start a new character and reach the same requirements again.  I suppose if I had a complaint about the system it is that it engenders some of my favorite people to start seconds that they mainly idle to get enough time built up so the can apply for wizard positions, this takes them away from the game more than puts them into it.  Ought to let a player who has achieved such levels with ANY character Wiz with a different character (provided the wiz has at least the 1M exp, but time being irrelevant as the player has the time already).

Just my two cents.

[ladychris]

Im not sure if the "solve all quests" req still exists, but im sure that if you do that you have easily reached the 2M xp and 20 hrs online req at least.
As for 1 year RL, I'm one of those who had to wait about 10 months since decided to wiz one of my chars. But I would not call that time "lost" although it seemed very very long back then... I used it to learn some coding and in the meantime played my other chars, so getting a better feeling of Nanny, and of what i could do to improve it.

The aim of a wizard should be creation, there's plenty of idle wizard around anyway, so i dont think making wizarding too easy would help.
We would surely have more apprentices, but how many of them would actually open their area?
As it is about 20% of new wizards manage to open their area within 1yr time (and i think im generous with that perc). Letting ppl wizzing too soon would just end up in more ppl giving up. If you are unable to wait 1 year to fulfil your highest desire, why shoud you be patient enough to go through all the long procedure that is required to open an area? (with _you_ i mean nobody in particular ofc)   .

I understand Yavathol's regret in wizzing such an old and experienced mortal, but, Sir Yavathol, if you really had wanted to wiz, you had plenty of time to create a second and age him enough, and i doubt that would have taken anything away from Yavathol's nannylife

And yes, there are a few options missing in that pool

[Arbre]

I didn't know "a year of existence" had been added. I can think of few creators that approached that when they wizzed or would have stayed long enough to wiz.

The problem in Nanny is not a need for more wizards. There is and has been plenty of talent available to keep the MUD alive with new content and maintenance.

Creative, competent coders tend to be turned off by the stifling atmosphere. Having one's code whimsically changed (often with bugs as the code does not get tested), waiting for months to get permission to add certain controlled types of items, etc. have frustrated and driven off many.  The "etc." includes what happens to wizards that complain.

[Hellspawn]

what should I chose of? I agree with neither

[Kherec]

I think it's good, overall.

I mean a wizard that has played the game, knows what exists, how it interacts with the rest of the world, how guilds work and what guilds stand for, what's typical for each side and could thus create more fitting and interesting things.

[Kymn]

The one year (since creation) requirement was put in there in order to make it harder to cheat on a regular basis, after a certain idiot hacked nanny and stole several guilds source code. I'd put all the grief over on him... along with a bucket full of goats piss.

[Maggs]

Am I to assume that you have crossed Spiral/Sync off your
XMas card list Kymn?

Was the cure more harmful than the desease?

Maggs

[Kymn]

Am I to assume that you have crossed Spiral/Sync off your
XMas card list Kymn?

Heh, you got that right

Was the cure more harmful than the desease?

In my opinion it's like removing a terminal cancer with an asprin. The disease led to a huge amount of work, and making guildcoding a chore from hell.  Cheaters were levling up wizards from sites practically all over europe, making sitebans useless. Not many choices really. But who knows perhaps even cheaters have preseverence to level up, idle up and wait a year to do more evil deeds.

That being said, it's not perfect today, I'd rather see that, after you have met all the requirements, you could be given a choice to create a new character which would be patched to wizardhood right away. That would give the same amount of protection against cheaters as we have today.

I know the arguments against it, like we want wizards that do more coding than mortal playing etc, but right now what nanny needs most is players.

edit: it's my opinion we need players most, but it's true that we also need content that appeal to existing and new players, which require wizards, so it's a dilemma

[Maggs]

I certainly have sympathy with the admin over this. I'm sure they
would prefer to do more constructive things than spend all their
time protecting the game from such individuals.

I had to laugh at the way the offenders moaned about injustice
when punished, having lessened the game for everyone,

Maggs

[onsa]

I know for me, my primary character being a Dark, without a cash cow to advance him the "cheap" way, I've become rather attached to him.  I know that even when I do reach the requirements for wizard, I won't, simply because I've acquired WAY more than 2 million exp by the time that my score really shows 2M NP.  I think that people who can prove themselves worthy coders with a character of at least 1 year of existance, 20 days playing time, and 20M should be allowed to create a character to be a wizard.  Or maybe transubstanciate themselves back into their mortal form without losing any of the their progress.  I don't know, I just think there has to be some alternative to surrendering all the progress I've made with my character so I can help to enhance the MUD.

[lillstrumpa]

Hehe, 2 years later...

Anyway, maybe the issue is still there, so here are my 2 cents:

What is it you want from a wizard?

You want him to know the mud pretty well from a mortal point of view? You want him to be a coder, maybe even a skilled coder?

You get the first by having the wizard-to-be playing the mud until he is able to become a wizard after meeting certain criteria. You dont get the second by doing that. You might if you are lucky though, or if you are nice enough to teach someone less good.

You have pretty big chances though of getting the second by skipping the "Play to wiz" bit and instead have some other criterias like interview, coding tests, etc. However that person might know the mud quite poorly. And that person might not stick around after getting wizzed either, by various reasons.

Is there any other alternatives? Not sure...

I think that the "play to wiz" option is better. You get someone who have some sort of feel and understanding about the mud, you get someone who is more dedicated to sticking around then in the second option and you get someone who can at least be taught to code.

Maybe its the requirements? I would probably go for lower requirements, but have them as some sort of mixture between age, questpoints, levels, etc and then have the person apply for wizhood and after that have an interview to deem if the person is worthy or not.

Because... Play up to wiz does not make you a suited wizard.

/Lillestrumpen