Druid Guild

[Maggs]

I don't know if everyone is aware that the Druids guild has been significantly enhanced of late. I did ask the question as to why, when the guild already has the fastest advancer in the game, it needs to be made more powerful - but hey.

Maggs

[Russ]

Well, I think the changes in the Druids guild are good.    I'm not sure whether the new spells are more powerful or not, as I haven't had time to use them in earnest as of yet. They do make it more varied though, before there was only really spores and blast as combat spells (and invoke if you got to elders). Now you have to consider more about what conditions you are fighting under, which I think adds to the experience.     Now I want to get to Elders again, just so I can try out the new spells, which must be good surely?

I personally think that the Druids have always had a bad deal when it comes to fighting,    But it was offset by being able to quest without any problems (unlike vikings, khornes, knights etc.).

Just out of interest who are you talking about when you say:

the guild already has the fastest advancer in the game

I've tried most of the guilds, and by far the quickest one to advance in (for my style of play anyway) is the Khorne guild.  

[Yavathol]

Well, I think the changes in the Druids guild are good.    

Ah, we wouldn't expect those playing druids to mind though, would we.
 

Unfortunately, the guilds have constantly come under scrutiny to be certain that all was in balance.  Come to think of it, I can't recall a single guild getting a boost, in the time I've been playing, other than the Druids.  That's not a swipe at the guild, I am rather fond of it after all, but truth be told, it has some of the best powers for very little trade off in weakness.

I think Maggs point is a good one, especially since she is in a guild that has been gutted over and over in the past several years.  "Why is it that the guild that currently has the second highest number of players, the guild that has been prooven to be able to advance to level 13 paragon within about a year (Polar is who she is referring to), the guild that has the 'most powerful questing skill in the game' suddenly needing a boost while the guilds of Sims and Monks (and I assume Chefs) have essentially been gutted?"

The concern isn't really one of do the Druids deserve this, the concern is more one of "Do the rest of us deserve this?"  Let's face it, there are only going to be less and less people playing certain guilds as long as they are prevented from earning experience.  Although I haven't heard or seen anything about the new spells the druids might have, I can assure you that I empathize with Maggs on this one.  And please do keep in mind, we aren't saying that Druids should not get new powers, we're simply saying that perhaps the admin might look at how to bring the monks et al back into the game as a real force.  

Who knows, maybe this is the herald of a new age though, an age when all guilds will be fairly equivalent, when all guilds will essentially have the raw power:disadvantage ratio of the Dark guild --- Nawww, It'll never happen.

[Russ]

I do realise that the guilds should be kept relatively equal, and having tried most of them, I think that they are all fairly equal on the whole. They each have their good and their bad points. e.g. I personally don't think Druids are all that good if all you want to do is kill things. You would be better off joining Khornes, or Vamps, or even Darks if you have enough money.    Likewise, if you want to quest, a Viking wouldn't be the best guild to choose, whereas a Druid might be.  It all depends on how you play the game... Druids do have a lot of negative points, like not being able to wear or wield metal objects, not being very good at fighting indoors, etc..

As for Polar, I think he would be where he is now regardless of what guild he chose to be in...  he is always on playing when I am on, and I remember someone saying that he is at, or near the top on a lot of other puzzle lists.  I can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but most druids tend to be at Hazels or below. Also apart from Polar, I think the next highest Druid player level I have seen is Paragon level 3...  If it was just the fact that he was a Druid, then surely there would be more Druids at high Paragon Levels?  

I do agree that the other guilds should be improved too... It can only make the game a more fun place to be    I think the main reason for the changes are that Banshee has a lot of spare time on her hands to make the changes... I could be wrong, but a lot of the other Guilds like Khornes and Sims don't actually have an active Guild Master... Which may be the reason they don't get updated so much...

[Maggs]

Yavathol has interpretted my concerns pretty well. It seems negative perhaps, of me to crtisise Banshee for improving things, but lets recall, that she systematically downcoded the Druids to such an extent that no one played it at all. At that point, she started adding/improving things.

Her argument for the initial downcodes was that the Druid guild should be simple to play, for beginners or for players that don't want to spend ages building skills.

The inference was that, if you wanted more power, join another guild and take the pain of training karma/parry/mythos etc. Its hard to see why one would bother if the 'simplest' guild in the game is the strongest. Well, I agree, thats a cynical statement - there are lots of reasons to play your chosen style.

I think that Polar has found a style of advancing quickly. Its not really true to say that he (or anyone) could do that any other guild.  Chef/Cult/Monk/Sim/Leper and even knight (where there is a good chance you will die in a attack) and really quite slow to get on. As I have said all along, I admire him for what he is doing.

M

[Yavathol]

Personally, I am waiting for someone to come along and hit Paragon level 22 playing their whole career in Masters     Now, that would be impressively tenacious.

[Kymn]

It seems negative perhaps, of me to crtisise Banshee for improving things, but lets recall, that she systematically downcoded the Druids to such an extent that no one played it at all. At that point, she started adding/improving things.

Perhaps you know this but it's always the best practice to downcode a LOT at first, and then upcode to reach a good point, rather than continueous downcodes to get to the same point.

Not sure about how fast Polar has been raising, but if you concentrate on xp all the time and play a lot, you get high paragonlevels in any guild. And judging from nannydiners he plays a lot and need a LOT of healing, infact 3x the one on second place in nannydiners. You can't use the top player in a guild to measure a guilds balance in my opinion.

Now you probably ask "who's this newbie kymn coming here acting up", I probably should have registered as my wizard (whizz) when contributing to this kind of discussion, but I spend most of my time in nanny these days as Kymn.

About masters, you'd be supriced how fast they can gain xp, if I played my master as much as Polar, I'd probably be up there at plvl 8-9. Using a full tome, nice equipment, wands etc a master can be a real killer

[Yavathol]

Using a full tome, nice equipment, wands etc a master can be a real killer

Never said you couldn't - just said it would be proof of perseverance.  Any guild can get way up there, but there is definately a little more motivation for most guilds compared to Masters.

As for the downcoding to upcoding dilemma - interesting point that I can not speak to in the least, but it does seem that Druids are less newbie friendly than when I first started as one.  Not that being less newbie friendly is a bad thing.  Just an observation that the guild is now a bit more complex.  
Of course, it does seem a bit like someone has turned around if the original downcoding was to make the guild more newbie playable and now it is moving away from that.  Perhaps it's a whole new chapter in the guild?

And what about the other guilds?  Essentially the monks have been downcoded a lot, then downcoded some more - and then the new experience system which essentially is yet another downcode for them.  Hmm, will they be getting upcoded soon you think?  Lars knows they could use a little encouragement.

And as for Polar, well, he is a bit outside the normal boundries.  His style of play is well suited to his guild (obviously) and probably to a few others as well.  I would think that some guilds would require an adaptation though.  After all, you can't really play a Vampire like a Sim and expect the same results.  Either way, I certainly agree that Polar is not the typical druid.

[Russ]

The changes that have occured so far haven't really made the guild more complex for newbies (only my own opinion of course).  I have talked to Banshee about it and she is very conscious of not adding things that will make the guild difficult for newbies.  
Almost all the changes are new spells to attack a monster in different ways... most of them are for the higher guild levels too, so shouldn't affect newbies. There is still the trusted spores and blast etc. for any Druids that doesn't want to think about what kind of location they are in...

Polar is definately not your average druid...    From memory he has at least 3 times the guild points of the second place player, and has always been top of the guild share chest for as long as I can remember... So I agree with Kymn(Whizz) about not using the top player in a guild to judge guilds against each other... It is all about playing style, my playing style may suit one guild better than another, but that doesn't mean that that guild is better than another. It is just that in my personal situation it is better.    What needs to happen I guess is for someone with a character in each guild at the same player level and relative guild level to experiment to see which guild gains xp quicker...  I don't know the answer, but I do know that in my case, it wouldn't be my Druid that gains the most XP...  

[Kymn]

yeah monks are an example of what continious downcodes do to a guild
all support kinds of guilds got hit hard in the party xp distribution recode, I think all support guilds should get xp for their support effort

[Maggs]

Perhaps you know this but it's always the best practice to downcode a LOT at first, and then upcode to reach a good point, rather than continueous downcodes to get to the same point.

I agree Kymn that this has always been the admins style here. When something seems wrong, they prefer to whack it with a big stick until it shatters, rather than pluging the hole. Thats fine in a utopian environment where there are a host of players waiting to start where others have left, but that doesn't seem to be the case in 2004.

The abuse of the monks guild, for example, could have been solved by stopping monks healing each other mentally. The guild had functioned perfectly well for 7 years before, so I never understood why they did what they did. All that happened was that everyone left/stopped playing, and with no queue behind them, thats how it remains.

Maybe things are not so bad. Its early summer after all - plenty of time for other changes to take place. I just don't see the Druids as the place to start, thats all.

M

[Carrion]

Personally, I am waiting for someone to come along and hit Paragon level 22 playing their whole career in Masters     Now, that would be impressively tenacious.

Hmm, I would do that, if it wouldn't mess up my master's exceptionally good title

Seriously, Yav, you should be a bit cautious, such a remark might mess up some addict's next 2 (?) years!

[Kherec]

Polar has invested a lot of time into his char, hence the high paragon level. That doesn't mean the guild is powerful, or too powerful.

I don't consider druids powerful at all, offensively or defensively, but it is a convenient guild to play. There's nothing you have to do, periodically, like with other guilds (rituals, ceremonies, attacks and what not), so you can just mosey on as you see fit.

This clearly works well with Polar's playing style, hence his high amount of time and rather safe playing style just makes him go on and on and on.

But as far as fastest, I don't know if you mean guild advancing or regular advancing ... in neither is druids nor Polar extremely fast, or faster than other guilds. There are chars in other guilds with higher paragon levels and less time invested (that didn't play up with the old, more profitable system).

But undoubtedly, as several of you have said already, this only shows that the mud's higher levels are no longer restricted to certain guilds, but available to any who has the tenacity to stick to it.

[Sharky]

I don't know if everyone is aware that the Druids guild has been significantly enhanced of late. I did ask the question as to why, when the guild already has the fastest advancer in the game, it needs to be made more powerful - but hey.

After playing the guild a bit I (just a bit) I can say that there is no singificant enhancement.... The new powers only brought a bit of diversity but they didn't strenghten the guild too much... There were even a few times when I felt weaker than before. It prolly depends on many items were corroded to strenghten the guild and also on a bit of luck.

[Smudge]

It's hard for me to tell the difference each of the spells makes in damage dealt, but I can see from some of the attack messages that they were the same ones that used to come from invoke, depending on different months.  "Condemn" seems to be the same as messages from the Month of Fertility, the earlier "earthquake" message from the Month of Earth, etc.  It appears to be adding more variety, if anything.

One small drawback is that I try to invoke my enemies every now and then.    But, "drench" is perhaps one of the most useful spells added to the guild - the ability to attack in/under water is very helpful, and it seems reasonable to me for druids to have at least one spell that works underwater.