Spamfunet Nanny Forum

Hi all,

Just wanted to get this out of my system!  :shock:  The only thing that really annoys me about Nanny, and I suppose online games in general is that it only takes one or two bad people to completely spoil things for others. As far as I am concerned, other people on Nanny can do what they want in the game, as long as they aren't breaking the rules, or affecting other players in a negative way, e.g. spoiling quests, stealing kills etc.

Most of the time, when someone steals a kill, they do it by accident, due to forgetting to do a shape. However, for someone to steal a kill, then completely ignore all tells etc. I find extremely rude. Just a simple sorry would be nice, but that is obviously too much trouble for some people!  :evil:

Its a shame there isn't a list of people who behave in such a way so that they can be named and shamed!  :wink:

That's better, feel much better now!   :lol:

Nuff said.

Why a 'sorry' would be necessary?
It is only when you kill by accident, I think.
Sometimes you just kill it since you're there as you need the xp anyway, or the loot, or whatever... I don't say sorry unless I mean it, usually.
Actually I don't say "sorry" enuff, I think (and I'm not talking just about Nanny :p ).

Why not start such a list :)

I agree, kill stealing really is lame, and when people pretend it's their way of role play it is laughable... This is a game, and people play it for fun, kill stealers ruin the fun (which of course make THEIR fun bigger). Not much to do about it though, just keep on having fun anyway :) (Hmmm, as a matter of fact, report kill stealers to me, and I might add some funny surprises for them in my area...) ((Ooops, no admin reading this, right?))

Ok can I start with people I dislike most?

Sure, but keep it to chars in Nanny...

Could not agree more. A few lame ppl can spoil the fun for everybody else. But who says you can't shame them publicly? Even without this forum (but I dont object to have them here as well) there are many boards and lines in Nanny to make everybody know them. Post about them, spread word, refuse to help them, ask your friends to do the same, and in a while they will be isolated and will have their fun spoiled too.

The nice thing in Nanny is that you play together with other ppl, you help them, you need them to help you. Playing being the outcast might be fun for a while, but discovering you really are, that everybody ignores you may force some ppl reconsider their attitude.

I admit though, i have forgiven most ppl in my little blackbook, both because they havent been on for so long that i have actually forgotten their names and because I havent suffered a killstealing in a long time. But seeing that other have still to complain about this really makes me rise in anger (and you should see me iRL to have an idea what this might mean  :wink: )

This has always been one of my pet peeves as well.  We have, kind of, kept a list at times of killstealers on the Knight's Discussion board, but, after time, people fall off of it - unless it is a really chronic problem.  I now hunt in areas that are fairly remote or less popular kills for the most part, so I can't say that I have personally suffered having a kill stolen in some time.

I can say that about two years ago or so, there was a player who simply followed younger knights and kept stealing their kills, which was quite frustrating to them.  When I became involved, I had them log it and then send in several instances to the Admin suggesting that it was a form of player harrassment.  At that time, the Admin agreed.  That particular character is no longer around.

Nanny is a huge place, with the number of players currently logging in there is no excuse not to be able to find one's own kills.  I suppose I can understand it when it is just a one time thing, and some form of reparations are made; but, to continuously and maliciously steal kills from others is more than just a spoiler, it is harrassing fellow players.  Given all the players that are willing to help others get experience and gold there really is no excuse for this behaviour, and as Carrion suggested, there is no basis to argue that it is "roleplaying" any more than leading Newbies to Pet is.  

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.  I would also be in agreement on keeping a more permanant list of killstealers as well.  Maybe we should band together and make a pact not to help or assisst anyone on that list in any way.

ok i start with saying Dragos :lol:

Thefly.

Qwer.
Rumors say he also took people to Pet.

I think a well known kill stealer just entered the house ;)

José
Caliga
Boris
[...]

qwer, doesnt asdf sound familiar?

Not at all. Who is that, some guy copying the result of my marvelous imagination?

I think we should keep in mind that kill stealing by accident is very different from making a sport out of it. I have to admit I have stolen some kills, but never deliberately! And I do feel very ashamed whenever that has happened; I don’t think kill stealing has anything to do with role-playing, that is just a lame excuse.

But I would like to share with you the worst form of killstealing I have ever seen.
It happened with my Khorne ‘Civatateo’. I was running around killing and entered the caves of Elrohir, was killing the orcs and troll in there and also moved down to the lizardman (don’t remember exactly what type of monster he was) Then I had to go back to heal.
When I returned there was another Khorne (1 rank above me) fighting MY kill. I told her to stop, and explained to her ‘this is mine’. She did not leave, so we were both fighting the same monster. Then I was the lucky one to get the final blow.
Then she got really furious and started to harass me on the Khorne’s line, telling other player it was me stealing her kill. Since you cannot reach this monster without first having killed the troll, and the lizardman was injured before she started, it was obvious I was the righteous owner of the kill. She then tried to justify her deed by saying I was playing wrong because I was not of high enough rank to be killing in that area, and should have left it for her… (Remember she was only one rank above me)
At this point I figured ‘this person is not just worth it’ so I ignored her. I will not let stupid ppl like that ruin the game for me. And I ignored her so well I can’t even remember her name today :)

Geez, if that person was above the age of 12 he/she has some real problems I'd say... Or was perhaps roleplaying a little cry-baby...

I don't think that killing a monster that blocks the way to another means that you have the right to kill the other one too, like it was claimed. I had this problem when it was obvious that I was going to the big one (for loot) and a knight killed it. So it's just a matter of habitude I guess. As a knight, I would never do that, or if yes, I would apologize and solve the problem sopmehow (I mean if I would be sure that I was mistaking and the other one should be the 'legal' owner).
I have chars that don't really mind to steal kills, I do think that it's a matter of roleplaying. The ones that say it isn't are or too lamers with their seconds to get somt other kills instead of whining or they just didn't play lately.
How would a dark or a vampire look to apologize to a knight, or a druid? Hell, my dark fought darks, and I didn't feel ashamed about it, even if it isn't a common practice. No char should steal but there are some that can do it once in a while. I have chars that never check shape, and perhaps if I do see that the monster is like, in the first hb, fair shape, I just continue. If I bothered to attack it I won't leave. In the worst case I just give the loot back or even the loot twice or 3 times in money, but I might just ignore the whiner. In many cases I just finish the kill and go for another one, and noone complains. It depends on the player.
I don't whine endlessly when someone steals a kill from me. I might let him/her/it know that I know about it and it wasn't nice but I don't whine about it. It would sound pretty weird, especially with certain characters (in certain guilds, I mean).
I have 'knightly' chars but I also have, perhaps not bad ones, but ones that are pretty selfish, and don't really care about others, that don't help others - depends on the problem, of course.  Chars that don't make xp for people, and don't give money away, or don't answer silly questions. I might send people with questions to knights or druids, however.

By the way, as I remember reading of Masters, they should be people who are so bored of Nanny, who find other guilds so easy. Then tell me that it's not lame a master that asks others to make xp for them. When, as far as I know, xp is the only thing a master needs to advance. I might be wrong but anyway if not the only but I think it's the main thing. Just remembered this, got pretty pissed off about this thing...

Read carefully Qwer... "Since you cannot reach this monster without first having killed the troll, and the lizardman was injured before she started..." it was not only the blocking monster gone, but she had started the other one too, which makes it killstealing (or at least attempted killstealing).
And no, i dont really think that a dark apologizing to a knight should be considered out of role playing... Respect for other players should not depend on the guild you are playing in.
And another thing... if you need that kill for some reason (xp, rank, blood, head...) having the loot back or even thrice its value in money wont compensate for the loss imho.  :(

I know it wasn't the case, I just wanted to say my oppinion.

Ok I'll just skip that part next time.  :twisted:

You don't have to accept the money, but some people are usually content with it as it's better than nothing, especially lower lvl/guild lvl chars. Last time I gave 20k back as I was angry, as I needed the kill for alignment. But hey, shit does happen. I searched for some other kill.

I am talking of respect or disrespect to certain guilds, or titles, not players.

I've never liked RTs (I mean with my knights), as I've quit knights once because one of them acting pretty childish and lame, did something I wouldn't especially as an RT. After some arguing everyone decided that I am to blame, even Gurk, so I left the guild.
That knight is not an RT anymore, he's an elder knight, but somewhat active, even if not with that char, and I couldn't forget this issue after how much, like 3 years, or perhaps more. He forgot it for sure, and everyone else, but I couldn't.
So I do think that RTs are usually too self-content, and they abuse their powers many times. Like, if you don't want to be punished, be VERY careful what you say to an RT, and never argue with them even if you think you're right; they will prove you're wrong and will punish you. And guildheads never were to serve justice, they just defend their people no matter what, or at least almost. There.  :twisted:
Anyway that was pretty shocking for me as I was expecting more common sense from an RT, at least to act as knightly as I usually am, with my lame knights that never made it to the exclusive club of RTs, or even a champion.

Now THAT was lame...  My master would never ask anyone for any help, and he started out from scratch in the guild, just like my other chars in their respective guild...

When playing a khorne I often get a chance to carry people around for exp, usually low lvl chars. I usually accept and make xp for people. But for a master, I didn't.. I mean, I just gave him a tip, like to join druids, or knights, or some guild where he can get easily help in case he can't manage alone. :p
I would've done the same with any character of mine.

You know, its quite funny, but I've noticed over the years that every time a knight does something that others might think is outside the code of honour, they invariably have some excuse about why they were right and everyone else was wrong.  I guess it's just a matter of perspective, much like the kill stealer suggesting that they are roleplaying.  I won't bother to actually offer the rest of my opinion on this here, I mean after all, this is supposed to be a thread about Kill Stealing, not "Those Evil RTs are all out to get me and they aren't even as good as I am."  
I am quite certain that if I offered my observations you would simply lump me in the same category anyway.  For the record, I will normally make myself available to listen to such complaints privately - and some people have even taken me up on that offer.  I might add that they have, in most cases, left satisfied.

Back to the actual thread:
Role-playing is all good and should be encouraged, however, let's step back and be a little bit honest.  There is absolutely no good excuse to steal kills.  Role playing or not.  If the best a player can come up for with your characters "role" is to steal kills when available, be selfish and generally a bit of a snot then I think the whole concept is lost on that player.  I've seen characters who never actually speak, although the same player's other characters do, they find ways to communicate around it when playing the mute, though.  That's an interesting quirk to give a character.  Just one example of many I've noticed.

As for certain guilds not apologizing to members of other guilds? Are you kidding?  I may not party with darks, or even sell to them on the Trade line, but there are quite a few who have my absolute respect and I would never be so disrespectful as to completely ignore them.  By the same token, you might be quite suprised how many darks I have had to help settle issues with when an overzealous knight accidently steals one of their kills.  I may not, in roleplay, approve of their guild, but I refuse to outright disrespect the players simply because they are in it.

Being an arse isn't really roleplaying ... being 'Evil' does not equal 'arse' (as in stealing kills and spitting in people's faces).

This comes from the simple reason that there is a limit you can't pass, harassment etc.

Besides, a good roleplayer doesn't have to resort to first-grade 'arse' behaviour to play evil, talk about lack of imagination :)

And about Masters begging for xp parties ... talk about insulting the Guildmaster of that guild, and the whole idea of the guild.

Whenever Masters ask for xp, I tell them they've picked the wrong guild (same if they ask for money).

I never said I did something.

I never said killstealing is part of role-playing. I probably did steal at least one kill with every char (well almost), I think it happened to one or two of my knights too. I don't go after people to take their kills because I cannot find my own ones. I just act differently after, depending the char. And sometimes I don't leave when seeing the low shape, as I have already started fighting.
You just misinterpreted the cause and the effect.

I don't think he did.... the way you presented things it appeared as though it's ok to killsteal as long as you have the "I was just role-playing" excuse.



I guess I should just log in with my viking and steal all the kills I can, right? I don't think there's a guild with a better, let's say, motivation for stealling kills than the plundering vikings... and if anyone says anything... I was role-playing!

You were the one who said in another note that nanny was dying or something like that.... Well, bad attitude doesn't help, does it? If you're rude, angry, disrespectful, an 'arse' as Kherec well put it what will it accomplish? How would you feel if your first experinces on a mud would be miserable, if anyone treated you bad because you are weak and unexperinced? It may sound crazy to MANY people, but hell, I'll say it: newbies deserve their share of respect... They are the future players, the ones who'll populate the mud... if we drive them away then what will happen to nany? And this is here not for the many players who like helping newbies and try to make them feel as welcome as possible. It's for those who forgot where they started from, who forgot that they were once newbies and how it felt like back then.

OK... I'll just stop here. No use getting so excited over something that'll probably never happen. :(

Here here!

Well said Sharky!

I am now playing with the fourth generation of Nanny players I have had the pleasure to game with.  The years go on, some players drift away and new ones arrive.  I will not hold it against the newer players simply that they were not playing before 2000.  It doesn't matter that they never knew Nib's area - a real shame that they didn't get to explore it, but it doesn't detract from their personal value to the mud.

I look forward to helping each new generation of players come into the Mud and find it an enjoyable experience.  I might need them to help me get around when I am wielding my sword from a wheelchair in my venerable years!

Just wanted to say that my previous note wasn't referring to Qwer, but to a particular category of mud players.



Hmmm.... *thinking hard* The Tenesees?  :twisted:

If it was this simple, don't you think I would've come up with a similar, short sentence?

If it's not obvious enough, I'll confess: I never went to the graveyard to steal the rabbits from a newbie that just logged on first time and was sent there. No, I don't enjoy doing it. And no, I can't understand why is there such a big deal about this.
If someone can't play masters, then go to druids or knights. This is how I put it. It's simple as that. Some guilds are newbie-friendly by definition, others, less. Anyway killstealing is not necessarily related to newbies, I believe.
If I don't help a newbie that doesn't mean I trick them to become pk and kill them. Luckily, usually there are people online who is supposed to be are newbie-friendly enough; I usually direct new people to ask a druid or a knight. And I don't feel ashamed about it. At least I'm not a hypocrite...

And so it started...

Russ:


Qwer:





So strange for me that u guys dont get the big picture.

As I see it, Qwer was not saying that the roleplaying is an excuse for killstealing, the discussion was about players having to excuse themself for killstealing, and in the meaning of roleplaying some of us dont realy have to, as a dark excusing to anyone for stealing a kill, on purpose or not, seems unfit for me, and I wont do that. And that's all I see 'bout roleplayng in this mather.

None is saying that he/she is looking to steal allready weakened monsters, but let's admit it we'we all done it and it's not like some of us dont enjoy it :twisted:, killstealing is just another way of making kills easyer, faster :twisted: . And in the mather of scaring the newbs away I say HUH??? I realy wanna see a newb that attacks the kind of monsters that I consider worth while. I usualy check the monster's shape before I attack, but if it is in superior or wery good shape I kill it fast and have no regrets. It also can happen that I'm in a "rush" and attack the monster and he dies before I can see a shapeinfo. That is annoying and I always leave the corpse "as it is" (with the loot intact) there. But if the player that attacked him before me complains 'bout it I usualy ignore him :roll:  or advice him go **** himself :twisted: depending on the mood.

It wasn't about killstealing from a newbie... it was all about bad attitude. :roll:

Actually Hellspawn, Qwer admitted to steal kills even though he notices the low shape while fighting, if he's on with a 'non-good' char, all in the name of roleplaying or laziness ... which is highly a matter of attitude :)

So I do think there were a reason for this discussion to turn into a discussion about roleplaying as an excuse to steal kills.

At least you're not accusing me of raping newbies.
If you try hard you might get that too out of wha I said.  :twisted:

(No offense at all, just couldn't resist to say this as it just crossed my mind :) )

How interesting, I'm discussing this matter with 3 RTs and a druid. I'm kind of outnumbered. Anyway I saw druid stealing my kill, and that should me so much more an offense as they have kill-stealing protection...

Ah, I don't steal claimed kills. If that happens, well once in a year eventually.
I do advise people to mark their kills so I won't start them. When someone steals like 2 kills form me I start to claim them. Then they tend to stop, for some reason. It's simple as this. Can't you too just do this?

Outnumbered? Not really... we're just discussing this matter and anyone can state his/her oppinion.

As for druids killstealing, I must shamefully admit I did it by mistake a few weeks ago. It was past 12:30am and I was really sleepy. So I forgot to check the shape of the elf and I simply attacked... Opq had attacked him, so he was already in v weak :oops:

Same thing happened to me yesterday.  Didn't check shape and hit the castle monster once, and he was dead.  Oops.  No one ever came along, even though I waited several minutes, so I assume whoever was killing it either forgot or left.  But, still felt bad about it.

When I talk about a kill-stealer, I usually mean people who kill the monster and leave, and don't reply to tells. I use to give a tell or two especially to knights, monks, druids. Sometimes to others too.

I wasn't talking in the capacity of a retired Knight of the Round Table, I was talking in general.

I roleplay my evil chars, and I don't have to steal kills to do that, or be rude to newbies ... that's the point I wanted to get across anyways.

Still missed the point a bit.
I don't have to, or need to, I just don't care. Shit happens.

It is a big difference between following people to steal kills from or steal once in a while because I just happen to attack a monster someone else did too just before.

Anyway this thread is a bit over-discussed I guess. I have posted a lot in it.

People are so different... In RL, and on Nanny... I don't really know why, but I think kill stealing, and I count the 'oh, I noticed the ape was in weak shape after the first hit, but I was too bored to stop hitting' as kill stealing, is sooooo lame (so f00kin' lame). Strange... But it really ticks me off... And afterwards, the 'so what?', or 'thanks for the help' answers, especially if I play a low-level unknown char... Ooooh, I get m-m-m-m-m-m-m-mad!

There. Carrion's brilliantly sparkling mind enlightened us all. Thank you for your wise contribution to the discussion. It was extremely educating.

Carrion u only have low-level unknow chars.
Ups... I guess that is rude but hell I'm a dark! I'm roleplaying right now anoying isnt it?
Nah that's not roleplaying! That's just me so if ppl dont like me just stop playing nanny, more kills for me.
 Newbs r fun especialy when u get to kill them. Why should I like newbs? eventualy they'l get bigger and stronger thanks to me and ppl like me, if u keep on helping them they tend to depend on others, join knights and be newbs even after 5 yers of playing.

Oki, I propose that a wiz creates a special area where only Hellspawn will be allowed to hunt.... Nanny being so small it must be really hard to find monsters.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


1. Oki, I suggest we all elect Hellspawn as the biggest, strongest, darkest player so he won't feel frustrated. :wink:
2. If they become eternal newbies, it's their fault... But I must admit I somewhat agree with Hellspawn on this matter.

Hey, I somewhat agree with him on that point, with one slight difference.  I have had to come "rescue" 19th level plus players from almost every guild from rooms within 7 of Green.  Yeah, there are times I think there are a plethora of young knights that would benefit from learning their way around and how to play on their own, but it is far from limited to a single guild.
If you add in the tells requesting help about how to find something or other, or how to enter combat with this or that monster... well, that would include ALL guilds, including Dark.  The fact of the matter is, even newbies have seconds and no guild seems to be giving a pre-entrance exam.

I've never had a problem with helping out actual "newbies" but it sure gets frustrating when someone who is level 18+ is sending me tell after tell wanting to know where to join the Traders and how to get some special item.  My favorite though, are the times I am asked "Will you get me 250,000 experience points?"  Those just make me roll.

this thread is getting nowhere some1 pls close it

Hi All  :)

Well, I have to admit, when I posted the first message, I wasn't expecting quite such a response!  :shock:

I guess I should start of by explaining how I play... When I go on a killing spree, I always try to do a shape before attacking. If a monster has been hurt and noone is in sight, then I will go off and kill some different monsters for a while and come back say 5 minutes later. Obviously this isn't fool proof, as you can't always do a shape before hand, if the monster attacks you etc... But it usually works.  However, I have still accidently taken someone elses kill, and in that situation I substituted an equivalent monster for it (got it down to the same health etc.) to make up for it, so that the other person didn't lose out on XP or money.

However, I am aware that other people probably don't have the same outlook on stealing kills as me, and with the help of Hellspawn etc. I do see where they are coming from. However, I think there is another issue here that I should raise. I (and probably quite a few other people) play Nanny to escape from the real world, where most people don't give a damn about anyone else...  :cry:  So to come into Nanny and meet the same attitude is a bit of a shock, especially when most people are curtious, respect others etc... I chose to play Nanny over other MUDs mostly because of the people, and the game itself came second.

I guess the lesson that I have learned from all of this is to not expect other people to act in the same way as me. Everyone is different, which is good. But, if everyone took the approach of only looking after themselves, and damn everyone else, then Nanny and the world in general will become a much worse place to be...  :cry:  Unfortunately I really do believe that this is becoming more and more the case as life becomes more and more competitive... I hope I'm wrong...  :shock:

Hmm... probably gone on long enough!  :oops:

*WAVE*

May I ask you with which right are you shutting other ppl down? There have been and still exist threads with far sillier comments than this one and they have not been closed :P
I guess thread will exaust by itself when noone has anything more to add to it. Till then, cope with it (or just use pgdw as someone suggested in a previous thread  :twisted: )

I can't put it better than Russ no matter how much I'd try. *bow*

Thanks!   :oops:

As for closing the thread...as long as someone has something to say..then the thread will go on and IS getting somewhere.

/Snafu :D

There must be a thread where bushlovers and kniggetz can also share their oppinion. Some people might actually read it here...  :twisted:
Anyway druids and knights have rules about killstealing.

I think the arches should make some new rules as banning killstealing and any other guild except druids, knights, monks, masters and adventurers. Then knights would rule all and druids would be the third most powerful guild.  :twisted:

I am a "bush lover" and a knigget...does that mean I can't post my cooks opinion?
 
 Ok, so seriously talking:

 1. Killstealing is not imho == roleplaying for some guilds. Be a vamp, dark and gloomy, kill me if you can but don't go after my kills. Be a dark and darken everything around so I get to make xp with my fireflies  :twisted:, but don't go stealing my kills on purpose, or just for the fun of it.
 2. Yes, the guild closest to my heart is the knigget?s and second come bush lovers, cooks, and sims..pretty friendly guilds showing I like relating to people so this is   strictly my opinion. Some of the guilds I'm in have the added bonus of claims so it's easier to monitor killstealing and to get other people to notice I was there first...and it's not hard to do a "shape" before you start hacking :).
 3. I agree shit happens but unless you have a serious tummy problem it shouldn't happen on a regular basis. Ok, you forgot a check or you just were attacked and attacked back before getting to leave. Nanny is just too big to have killstealing issues...and it's not like thousands of people are logged permanently. I suggest exploring. I've recently restarted exploring and I've found lots and lots of cool stuff (far away from green I might add.  :D )
 4. Mudding is all about having fun. And we have fun cause of the people playing it. Otherwise there would be no forum to complain on and say we don't care about others, cause there would be no others.

*applaud*

I can see this is a hot topic, with many different views.

I was earlier posting a note on a killstealer, I thought I had lost the log, and did not remember her name, but it turned up yesterday when I had a good 'summer cleaning' om my PC so here it is :).


The salamander missed you.
Spiral Staircase, near bottom.
The heat is almost like the inside of a smith's furnace, searing and
unending. The staircase ends below you in a wide chamber. Above you it
spirals out of sight.
  There are two obvious exits: down and up.
Kara the fierce Bloodthirster (Andy's).
A salamander guard.
say mine
Ok.
The salamander died.
You killed the salamander.
[Khorne] Kara: are you kill stealing?
[Khorne] Kara: what the fuck is up with that?
[Khorne] Civatateo: me?!?
[Khorne] Kara: we are in the same guild
[Khorne] Kara: hell yes
[Khorne] Spliff: stone him!!!
[Khorne] Civatateo: shape monster before you attack
[Khorne] Spliff: stone him to death!!!
[Khorne] Kara: why are you taking kills you cannot kill?
[Khorne] Kara: wouldnt you have to heal like a few good times to kill that on your own?
[Khorne] Ruscovic: Kara, shape the kills you are taking on...
[Khorne] Civatateo: I was killing him, if you would do 'shape' you would have seen
[Khorne] Kara: i am killing kills that neither one of you should be killing
[Khorne] Civatateo: Kara you are only 1 age higher
[Khorne] Ruscovic: Rank =)
[Khorne] Kara: still, it is a difference!
[Khorne] Ruscovic: Kara, stop bitching, you tried to steal his kill now appologize.
[Khorne] Kara: that was not a rank 15 kill
[Khorne] Ruscovic: So?
[Khorne] Kara: why am I shaping for lower guild members? is that supposed to make sense? I would do that if another rank 16 was on
[Khorne] Civatateo: what if it was a person from another guild, it is ok to  steal from other guild AND lower char from your own?
[Khorne] Kara: it depends on what guild, they have marks or signs anyway
[Khorne] Kara: and really only knights kill in that area :P
[Khorne] Kara grins evilly.
[Khorne] Ruscovic peers at Kara.
[Khorne] Kara: afk
[Khorne] Ruscovic: Its kinda lousy to accuse someone of killstealing when its the other way around.
[Khorne] You nod solemnly.

Unless someone is actually stalking me around the MUD, killing "my" kills,
I hardly mind if someone sometimes steal my kills... be it an accident or not. I might pat them on the head and move on.
On the other way around, I don't feel like such a big jerk when I accidently do the same now and then. I sure as hell don't shape everything before I attack. If I get "caught", i'll drop an exessive amount of coins, if not, well, I won't wait around.
Anyway, you can always whi*ahem* complain to the admin if you feel harassed by someone.
I should know, I've had a char removed in my younger days, the reason was something like "Excessive killstealing and lack of common sense" or so.  :twisted:

Heh, this thread just keeps on living its life :)

Nice log Morild, fun thing is that Kara probably think he's correct... But the beauty with khornes are that they CAN kill monster worthy of much higher rank, you only need the cash, healing is not a problem.

And for Allyene's note, I'll take an honest excuse over cash any day. Hell, cash is just too easy to collect, so it really doesn't matter, does it (except for a REAL newbie, who would probably rather want the XP anyway). But I have no vamp yet, so I'll get back on the subject after playing that guild too a bit.

The funny thing is that Kara seemed to be just one rank higher, and he/she/it went for that kill too ;)

That particular monster can be killed easily on much lower ranks too, given the right rewards ... so I don't know what the heck he/she/it was talking about ;)

Where accidents happen, well, that is annoying.

I have to say though, that there are occasions when some players have deliberately stolen kills because they think they have some sort of right to do so.

It usually seems to come down to guild. Its especially true of Vampires some of who get the best powers in the game for having a bit of luck, then only know a few kills anyway - so they carry on and take them. Some seem to think that having such powers entitles them to certain kills because they are hard (knight sentries, newhaven trio etc). Khornes and darks have been known to come out with similar excuses.

If I found that a player was deliberately ruining my enjoyment of the game, then I would report it because:
a. it was likely that others were having trouble/complaining
b. its the admins job to make sure the game is enjoyable for all

I have also seen 'elder knights' log on their vamps and act this way so I don't see where this RT thing is relevant.

M

You forgot:
c) it feels good to take someone down you don't like, or don't agree with.

Yeah, if an annoying mosquito spoils the pleasure of a warm summer night, it does feel good taking that mosquito down.

I really cant understand where is fun in annoying other ppl  :roll:

'You forgot:
c) it feels good to take someone down you don't like, or don't agree with. '

No I don't.

It does feels good, however, to see chars intent on spoiling other peoples enjoyment getting wiped - and it happens a lot.

Enjoy it while you can.

Nannys player base is smaller than anyone would like to see, and its not acceptable to have people put off playing the game because of the actions of mostly bored 'experienced players'. When I get bored with the game I stop playing, go down the gym, ride horses etc etc. I don't take my frustration out on Nanny (a al Sync et al).

I get a life.

Well spoken, Maggs!



Silly me.... and I thought that's why the arena exists...

Hey Maggs,
So nice to see you back!

I have to agree, there is something so satisfying about seeing a character that relishes annoying everyone get banished.  I guess I should have put that under my guilty pleasures.   :twisted:

EXACTLY!

/Snafu :D

*applauds*

This is *exactly* what I said you just make it sound so innocent. Guess I am still far from a decent english, I can't twist the words as you do.

:twisted:
Just got one from poor. cut the head off a nd run away! I'm so happy!
 :twisted:

New piece of killstealing fresh from the mud.
 I was playing my cultist and waiting for a ceremony. Indeed the request for one came and i went to secure a kill. Got the monster to fairly poor while waiting for un update from an idle cutlist and when I saw her go LD initiated the ceremony. When i went back to the monster...surprise surprise... It was not there anymore...so teleportation really exists and has been patented by guardian monks.
 It's a hard thing for a cultist to fight the 8 minutes countdown while trying to find another suitable kill and it's even harder when you need to hold the ceremony yourself. Got another monster to poor and the time expired and I got a sanity curse.
 Well, even if it sounds like that this is not a note where I'm complaining and asking for a pat on the back. Not at all. It's a fact note! The fact is it happens and this is not the only time recently. It happens both with marked and unmarked kills. I just posted this to show that most of the times money can't compesate a stolen kill and you can do much more harm than stealing some xp and eq from a fellow player.
 Some will surely snicker others will understand. This killstealing can ruin the fun of the game and can drive people away. I love Nanny too much to ever give up but a newer player might not. This is not the Nanny I like. This mud is too big to _have_ to steal kills. I know it's easier not to but "explore and ye shall find kills in undamaged." :idea:

*Sympathy*

In fact, kill steal affected more than just you, it screwed the whole
guild for a few hours. It is therefore not even close to being funny :/

M

this whole thread seems kind of pointless...everyone has the possibility of marking their kills...so as if someone tries stealing will suffer various consequences...the feature is implemented...what's the wabbling about here?
sometimes you just don't have the time to "shape" every monster around...that's not kill stealing...the only valid kill stealing is when u try killing a marked monster and no doubt the one who marked it will know...as well as the admins.

A GREAT example of a lame POINTLESS discussion.
80% of the knornes don't even know they have a room just south of the share room to get marking signs.
This whole incident could of been avoided if some smart ass over there would of marked the kill instead of "shaping" it.  :lol:

I find that people that are motivated to steal do not care about
a mark.

I don't quite agree with your definition of kill stealing. I would say
that kill stealing is deliberately taking a monster that you know has
been damaged by another player, regardless of the prescence or otherwise of a mark.

Still, we all have our differences of opinion - it makes it all fun :) -
even with Carrion (sometimes)!

M

now what's so hard to understand? every feature in this game has a purpose  :!: if you dont't use some features it's your choice and stop complaining  :roll: A kill it's YOURS only when u MARK IT. That's the whole purpose of marking. Or is this a useless feature?
Now the dark runes hurt stealers, the knight runes remember the stealer as a proof of stealing, that druid birdie screams her lungs out on the guild line and so on!
The one who steals a marked kill and you have the proof of that (that's the mark itself) should and will get punished.

USE THE GAME's FEATURES!!! and understand it's not my duty to "shape" it's your duty to MARK  :!:

/there's no such thing as stupid software, only stupid users.

I do understand you, I just don't agree. Thats my perogative (and yours
of course).

Happily, it won't be my definition of kill stealing that will matter in the final
analysis. Equally, it may not be yours either.

Gee, by your own logic then you should use the game feature Shape instead of this lame attempt to justify yourself by hiding behind claiming signs.  Your point doesn't even make sense when we extend it out.  Let's see - as an example:

And this somehow deters killstealing how?  Let's be honest, there have been plenty of players that found such a declaration (claimed kills) to be the very ones they wanted.  So, sometimes Khorne's signs, Knights runes, and any other signs out there that don't actually damage the stealer can actually attract attention.  After all, if someone steals my claimed kill, just how exactly is knowing who it was result in them being punished for it?

Regardless of whether a kill is marked has no impact on whether the kill stealer is punished.  Let's be honest about that right up front.  They aren't punished.  

As for the assertion that it isn't your duty - fine, you don't want to take responsibility for such actions, we can't make you - but we sure will continue this thread to talk about it and how it hurts the game.  Don't like us discussing it, I guess there are two options:
1) Don't read this thread
2) Don't steal kills - meaning any kill started regardless of signs

On a side note - I don't really think the guy who started a thread entitled "time wasting machine" should accuse anyone else of having a "lame POINTLESS discussion."  It really stinks of hypocrisy at the very least.

Now that's REALLY lame  :lol: i'm not by far a hypocrit , just a geek killing rabbits in my so called "free time". Just like you :)

Okay...let's get over that...about this kill stealing...the "shape" command wasn't implemented for one to check if a monster is taken by someone else but the marking feature is for that purpose only. Q.E.D.
If i run into a monster and i find it good or poor or any other shape instead of undamaged, with no mark whatsoever my only choice is to wait for the so called claimer who could as easy be logged off or shout(40 SP wasted) maybe maybe someone will answer. Now that's weak...really weak and lame. You know i'm right...if you mark your kill you make things easier for everyone.

That's all...keep wabbling about as long as you wish...i don't mind...  8)

I agree that the use of shape can, in some circumstances, be overly
burdensome. Thats the case with Khornes certainly, and maybe darks
also.

When I play those quick styles I don't use shape in most circumstances.
I only use it if I see someone around the area, or I have a suspicion that
someone _may_ be killing the thing I'm after.

If I attack something that is damaged, I move on where possible. This
policy can come unstuck when the monster is in dep, but it doesn't
happen very often at all. Its a consequence of the admin making KIP
so difficult to maintain I'm afraid.

M

I can certainly understand why a khorne would be racing around and not wanting to take the time to run a "shape" on every creature, but as you said, the rare times when it is in "deplorable" shape to begin with make it possible to break off in most cases.
I'm really not certain if darks have the same difficulty.  With Khorne's they must kill that fast.  Simply wanting to should not negate one's responsibility to the rest of the community it seems.  And I have certainly seen plenty of darks who do check shapes.  

There are certainly instances where claims and signs can not be left behind on kills as well.  I can think of a handful of monsters while I write this sentence that can not have knight's claims laid down.  I also know of other circumstances when claims can not be placed, at least by knights, due to other factors.  
Of course, there are some kills I never claim at all because, historically, you start those kills and you are almost guaranteed that someone else will finish it if they know.  There have actually been cases of players who simply roamed popular kills looking to killsteal.  
Personally, I've found that simply staying on some of the less travelled paths keeps my kills safe for the most part, but sometimes I like to kill the same things as everyone else.

I know that kill stealing will be an ever present ill in the game, and I wouldn't complain about the ocassional accident.  But for a kill stealer to tell me it's my fault for not marking my claim clearly enough is completely unacceptable and, I can assume, only a result of absolute ego-centric beliefs.

I'm not really sure about where Fenix stands on this, whether he
is saying that no mark means a damaged kill is fair game, or that
he would stop fighting a damaged kill when he realized - its just that a
mark would have helped him - hence the frustration.

M

When you do an "exa" on me do you see that fancy Camelot sign anywhere on me? Well you DON'T so yeah maybe i'm ego-centric.
No pity or compassion for those who don't even follow some simple rules. No mark no claim and it goes both ways.

Well, actually I think he made it clear that he doesn't care if it's damaged.  Not that it matters.  I find that for the most part his rantings are just empty wind without the substance of real thought.  
When one abandons logic, facts and completely disregards others it becomes impossible to have any meaningful dialogue with them.

There are plenty of others who have raised the point of the "accidental" kill steal pages ago, however, and I do believe several of us recognized that such cases were a different situation entirely.  Certainly if a kill is left when it is deplorable there is always a chance that a Khorne trying to maintain KIP will be coming through, and that first hit could do it in easily.  Such things happen.  My main beef, and I think it was Carrion's too, was that there have been a handful of players that basically make a career of stealing other people's kills and that anything even approaching that detracts from the game for all.

That handful of players are indeed out of line ... my kills were stolen too by vamps or khornes and i learned to mark them. When u steal a marked kill there's no excuse for you and those players will eventualy get punished. But we all encourage them by offering free kills on plate!!! It's obvious...a mark free kill it's an available kill...noone can punish me for taking it. So ... keep shaping others kills while yours will get stolen  :)  Nice isn't it?

I'm afraid that I don't find your arguments at all compelling. To say
that 'no one can punish you for....' is flawed. The admin can punish
anyone, and my guess is that they are motivated to do that because of
complaints they receive. At that point, I wouldn't give much for the
chances of your 'marking' argument saving the complainee.

I also never subscribed to the argument that it was Ok to steal because
you have been robbed, even if its against the kill stealer. I reacon that
if I took that option, then I would be as bad as the stealer themselves,
and would be treated by the admin as such.

If someone compromises the enjoyment that you have for the game,
complain to the admin and let them sort it out. Thats their job,

M

All of that is well put!  Of course, there are some people that just don't seem to care how low they sink.  They run around with blinders on not realizing that they are that handful of players previously referred to.  Of course, they also complain a lot themselves ...  which is kind of funny.

After all, if you make the weather, you shouldn't complain about getting stuck in the rainstorm.   :wink:

Yeah, so the poor killstealer doesnt even need to shape.  8)
A marking sign is a clear statement monster is in poor condition, with the added "fun" of knowing whom it belongs as well.
So why am i supposed to make killstealer life easier?  :wink:

Btw, i very seldom complain for a stolen kill either, only if that monster was of particular worth for any of my chars... But seeing (as it happened recently) a lvl 15 druid (none of my chars, just a new friend) who, despite his not so good damage potential, decides to go for balrog and spends more than 1 hr to have it to depl, just to have it stolen at the last moment makes me rise in anger...  :twisted:

The fact that marked kills (especially kills marked with signs) aren't actually preventing killsteling makes Fenix's arguments kinda pointless, doesn't it? I have encountered quite a few situations when the sign was there doing it's job while the monster was long gone.

Note to Ladychris: advise your friend not to use barkskin and to have as few wooden items on as possible when going for monsters with fire attacks.  :wink:

Especially if those complaints come from a "friend"? That's so true and sad in the same time.
Marking kills won't eradicate the kill stealing problem, only diminish it.
Now it seems i have no chance of convincing you but keep one thing in mind...you and the admins : Don't ask someone else to be fair unless YOU are fair first! I guess this makes sense doesn't it?
None of my marked kills were stolen only unmarked ones. Stop exagerating noone makes a kind of life stealing marked kills...i'm sure he won't survive a couple of attempts.
But the problem isn't the ones stealing marked kills...it's your commodity not to mark them  :!:

To be honest, I think that if a monk marks a kill then no one _can_ kill
it. Barbarella kicked bottom.

Still, it shows that marks can be abused. I once killed a marked
ceremonial guard (undamaged) with a khorne, when I saw that the
two knights that marked it were killing the Paragon. Strangely enough,
they never complained :)

I'm not quite sure why you think that I'm unfair though. I can be grumpy
thats for sure, could be friendlier at times, but I never try and make
the game less fun for others. Nanny is a multi-player game, if I want
to play alone I can load NWN locally or something.

M

Without marking you don't (shouldn't) have any right to claim the monster. How should I know it was yours. perhaps you're lying - knights lie and steal also occasionally they just can't admit.

It's always tough when someone steals a ceremony kill but that's it. I try not to steal ceremony kills because it can be hard to get another one (especially for a n00b).

This mud is made to be newbie-friendly, not fun. These two are not always the same thing.

Don't you hate jumping in late and not taking the time to get caught up.  I won't rehash the same arguments, they're still archived.  No need to waste my time with it.  As for knights stealing kills - You won't find a large number of serial kill-stealers in the guild, we actually do something about it.  

And as to the whole newbie-friendly vs fun argument:
If you don't think the Mud is fun, then why do you play?

and, can I add, what distinguishes a ceremony kill?

I'm just waiting for someone to claim that if a cultist tries to reserve
a well known kill then its their fault when it gets stolen.

I guess we are all just asking for it by playing the game and having
the affrontary to attack monsters on certain peoples kill list.

I just wonder sometimes why such people play a multi-player games
when there are plenty of single player games around where their
chosen kills will always be there.

Maggs (is confused)

I don't mind having one or two kills stolen from me once in a while, but when the killstealer is too pathetic to say sorry, I'll be on him/her like a leech til I get some sort of revenge  :twisted:

When it comes to self-pity, you're not a noob, you're a MASTER ;)

Am I wrong or does someone have way too much time on his hands? Or am I the only one who thinks that he is posting _way_ too many notes?

Ereshkigal

No, you're not wrong.  No, you aren't the only one who thinks that.

Someone is writing what I see as interesting comments about the GAME.

I also think Someone is being very patient.

WTF? Talking to ME???

;)

Once upon a time I was killing Sir in Harthorns area and set my owl, named Sharsowl to watch over my kill, and unamed player came along and killed hiim then complained that he was blinded and couldnt I mark the kill another way. I think that people dont need to move so fast they dont have time to assess the kill.

Okay, that someone was certainly not me. :)

This makes me nostalgic though. This kill-stealing thing has always amused me. So I guess I will get spammy about it. (After all this forum needs notes.)

This kill-stealing thing bothers me so little that I have pretty much changed my attitude about it at will. In fact, I was a real hypocrite about it. (And no, I am not proud of it. These are just really amusing memories for me. So you can hate me for it, I don't care.)

If someone I liked stole a kill from me, I used to be really tolerant about it. For example, once Malfeithor stole a kill from me and all I did was tickle him on paragon line. I don't know if he would have done it if he had known it was my char. Knowing him he probably would have. But still, it just amused me. On the other hand, another vampire (whom I will not name) once stole a kill from me and I called him such nasty things that he forgot about the kill-stealing accusation and started arguing with me over my language. When I was really new, I even reported a vampire for kill-stealing and he got banished as a result (probably because I hadn't been the only one to complain).

I was just as inconsistent on the other end. I rarely stole kills with non-vampire chars. But my vampire was fairly nasty. I remember once my first vampire char and one of Karzak's chars were partying (he was helping me with a blessing or something, in the good old days before the xp system got unfriendly to parties). And I kept stealing from some leper (probably Rowen's if I remember right). Actually I only realized that I was stealing once, but evidently I had done it lots of times. I think he sent a threatening tell to Karzak that if I didn't stop stealing, the whole lepers guild would focus on stealing kills from me. I am not sure why he didn't send the tell to me, probably just to get it across that he was too good to talk to me. ;) Besides, it would be really hard to steal kills from a vampire, but then we all know how bombastic Rowen can get. ;) (No offense if you ever bother to read this Rowen, its all good fun!)

As Sharlana said, no one needs to move so fast that they don't have time to check the kill. But vampires kill so much that most of them are too lazy to care. And that was the case with me too. Usually if I started on a kill and found it damaged, I didn't stop unless I had a reason to believe that it belonged to someone I liked or if I was going to get caught in the act. Usually my attitude towards this has been that I will steal from someone who can emotionally deal with it. But I guess I haven't really been consistent with that either. Quite recently (i.e. maybe a year back) I stole a kill from some leper with a name starting with Z (don't remember exact name). He figured out it was me (since there were about 3 people online then) and started asking me if I stole from him. I ignored him. He got pissed off and kept asking me if to at least admit it. But I kept ignoring him and his temper kept mounting. I was a real sadist with him. :P

And just to repeat:
No, I am not bragging about being a jackass. I really find this stuff funny in retrospect. I don't like making people unhappy, but sometimes I did. Its just a game. I know some people are really sensitive about this stuff, and I don't mean to make fun of them for it. I have had a real short fuse too with some issues. But in the end, I think these are the things that keep the game alive. Just imagine how boring life would be if all of us acted like kniggets. *shudder* We need chaos! :)

Okay, I am done with my nostalgia. *sniff* Nanny was so much fun. :) But I guess it is over for me now (except for spam like this).

Ereshkigal

Then you have the kill stealers who will leave you with your mouth wide open. You are fighting Carrion's troll king when a cultist suddenly enters, steals the kill, goes from negative alignment to positive and at the same time goes from sane to insane. Later you find the same cultist running around green, dropping equipment as a product of insanity, trying to get back to negative alignment. You are left asking yourself "Why????". Or you are fighting an archangel or something with an equivalent alignment and a party of a high level knights enters and finish your kill in a couple of heartbeats.

*gasp* Kill-stealing kniggets!

Hehe, that reminds me. I never stole kills with my knights. But one day I was killing in Weronoop's area and I thought I was the only person killing there since all the tower guards seemed to be there. So I stopped checking shapes. When I got to the ones in the northwest corner, I hit my orb kill and shield bash alias without checking anything. The shield bash missed it, but as the combat had started, I saw its shape which was "deplorable". So I left the room immediately. And at the same time this druid called Amazon entered the room. Apparently it had been her kill. So then she started yelling and screaming at me. I quickly explained what had happened, apologized for it and pointed out that I had not actually killed the monster, in fact I had left when it was still low shape. However she still kept on yelling and screaming until I just got tired of apologizing and just left. After a while some RT called me for the usual scolding session and I had to spend some 10 minutes trying to convince him that I had intended absolutely no harm and that I had really not done any harm either. But I imagine she was still egging him on to kick my ass. It was like she wasn't going to be happy until she saw my head on a platter. I was left thinking - "Wow, what the hell is your problem?"
 
A little later though I was able to see her get what she deserved. She had developed this habit of idling in the room south of Pet to hide from the TAG club. (Apparently she thought that no one would be able to recognize the description of this room, you know, since it is one of the better known rooms in the game. ;) ) I warned her (as Ereshkigal) that it was a really bad idea to sit there since if someone else attacked Pet the flames would hit her. But she kept doing it. A couple of days later a vampire named Ydo (not mine, but one of my friends - and no, I didn't ask him to do this) decided to kill Pet. He went and found her there and told her to leave. She was probably too idle to notice or just didn't care. So he went ahead with his kill and she got fried to death. And the flames consumed the corpse as well as the coins. After a while she was freaking out on the paragon line about how Ydo got her killed and stole her money. Ydo and I were too busy laughing to manage a coherent reply to calm her down. ;)

Okay, so half this note had nothing to do with kill-stealing. But it was amusing anyway. :P

Ereshkigal

Ah, nice to see some activity here. Why not dig through the old logs and paste one or two in the nostalgia part, or somewhere else (Snafu seems REALLY slow at putting up logs sent to him though :P  ).

That story about the cultist stealing my troll king was just hilarious :) Who was it???

And to finish this note, I just want to say I really hate kill stealing. Period. (Which is why I felt so ashamed when I stole a kill from a fellow high ranked khorne some year ago, but I really try to play as effective as possible with that char and my bite is pretty effective also.)

My problem is that I have all my output sent to a huge log-file. I only split it into several parts when my computer can't handle the file any longer. So I sure have everything stored on disk, but there is no way I will be able to retrieve it :)


I honestly don't remember. I remember I asked Mytho if the cultist had any problems and the answer I got suggested that he/she/it was not very popular in the Cult either.


I once partied with Fortyseven and his simyarin sidekick. We mutilated high level kills in a matter of heartbeats. In such a party it is very easy to accidentally steal a kill, especially if the monster is auto-attacking.

Would a stolen kill be as offensive if it were an NPC doing it?  When you strip away the personal feelings of anger and a desire for justice, you are left with an inconvenience.

Speculating on the psychology of someone who steals kills by calling them immature, etc., is a call to question your own maturity.  It isn't them you are hurting when you call them names.  You honor a person in thinking about them.  The best way to think of bad people is to think of good people instead.

You're probably right, but I think it's a decent way to let off some steam to write a bit about ones annoyance over kill stealers. It's just a game, and this is just an online forum. Both quite enjoyable though, in my opinion.

It's also interesting to hear about what other people think about different things, for example kill stealing BASTARDS ;)

About an NPC doing the stealing, I would be more surprised than angered, I think.

If you stole a kill from a NPC and he/she/it complained to an RT, would you speculate on its psychology thinking "Wow, what the hell is your problem?"? Or would that be immature? :)

If an NPC would steal a kill, then I would consider it to be part of the game. If a player steals one random kill, I would also consider it to be part of a game. But when a player stalks you and tries to steal every kill it can from you, then there is a human being behind that keyboard trying to ruin my gaming experience.

(I think the killstealing npc would be an interesting idea. Consider a good piece of weapon or armour. If you leave a monster in deplorable shape while healing, a demon appears, finishes the monster and runs away with all the loot. Would be an interesting and unpredictable drawback.)

I don't think it is immature to feel irritated about kill stealing. It is a matter of how you see the game. Most people play the game because they enjoy playing/competing with other people. So they are very aware that there is another human being behind the character and that's what makes the game meaningful to them. So I think it is natural to be pissed off if you think that someone isn't playing fair (even if there is no explicit rule about kill stealing).  I suppose there are some who see other players and NPC's on essentially the same level. That's fine for them I guess, though I don't think I would like to be like that. I'd rather be immature than dead, heh.
 
Also, if I were just looking for beautiful text or interesting puzzles, I'd rather look for them in better places!

When they single you out and follow you around, then that becomes harassment and is punishable as such.