QP Req quest (created from tail end of Great Players thread)

[Russ]

Ok, I'll take the bait!  

I think in some ways Carrion is right, but in others not.  In simple terms, you could think about it as just having enough time and endurance. There is nothing to stop someone going through a quest, not using any brain power and just examining everything and typing in every word they can think of. In the same way as in theory, given enough time, you can get a group of chimps to type out the entire works of Shakespeare, there is a certain probability that it can happen, so given enough time it would happen.  

But, I don't think anyone plays Nanny like that! (of course I could be wrong!) I personally think that most people who quest like to actually get involved in the quest and figure it out using their own brain power, which therefore means that at some point there must come a time that no matter how long they try to figure something out, they just can't make the connection to solve it. I guess you could say that someone with a lot of patience would eventually stumble across the solution and solve it, but I am not sure this is true in all cases...

Of course, if someone has cheated and somehow got a solution to a quest, then it would be just a matter of time until they solved it, but that is probably off topic...  

[Kherec]

Questing brings a depth to nanny that is unparrallell to the experience you get from roaming the countryside, slaying sheep and other critters.

While there is a very nice benefit of questing, namely that of getting permanent Nannypoints, I do think there should be more. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy having all my experience spendable for most of my chars, despite them being Paragons, it makes for comfortable play, in the unfortunate event of me dying ... but there is one thing in particular that could be added without making it too much of an advantage.

- All items requiring XP should require NP (people can have 3M+ NP and still not able to wield weapons requiring 1M XP for example, due to having a very high amount of questpoints and just 800-900k XP).

I don't know, I've given up on ever seeing an actual 'real' benefit of questing, so I haven't thought up any good examples of things to add

[Carrion]

But, I don't think anyone plays Nanny like that!

This is most definitely true. People actually questing is probably relatively intelligent and can often be considered as good players, I myself takes pride in solving quests when I have the time (which last was in '98 I think...). (By the way, I am right in all ways.)

[Carrion]

- All items requiring XP should require NP (people can have 3M+ NP and still not able to wield weapons requiring 1M XP for example, due to having a very high amount of questpoints and just 800-900k XP).

I don't know, I've given up on ever seeing an actual 'real' benefit of questing, so I haven't thought up any good examples of things to add

If time permits, I will definitely change some XP requirements to a mix of QP and XP (or perhaps NP straight). If you haven't done it already, use 'idea' in Nanny to highlight this possibility, sometimes it just takes one tiny 'idea' to get some action.

[Yavathol]

On a side note:

One of the nice thing about puzzles is that you can make them quest-like, add a nice reward and not have to wait ages for approval. You also don't have to make changes to suit another's idea of what makes a fun quest/puzzle.

I'm sure my area isn't the only one with these.

Nope, Your area isn't the only one with these. And I am happy to report that in spite of the fact that I find many of the quests to be internally illogical, buggy and simply lacking much common sense (not to mention lacking any significant incentive to do them); I feel very different about the puzzles and enjoy discovering those! I actually miss the the old woman who would tell you about how many puzzles you had done and would give a list of players and the number of puzzles solved (Used to be in vincent's area and was also the central part of one of his puzzles).

I remember that when new areas would open, Tirian and I would race back and forth to her to discern how many new puzzles were available. Then, we would try and find/solve them all.

To a certain degree I would even argue that puzzles take more knowledge of Nanny to solve since there is no central list providing clues to the existence of the puzzle, much less the location or what the goal is.

Hey! Maybe there should be a puzzle point requirement too!

[Kherec]

Puzzles have the advantage of quests simply by NOT having the random element in it, not by default anyways.

Creators are not bound by artificial limits and other hampering rules when creating puzzles, making it both easier, faster and more encouraging to make fun, logical, captivating, thrilling, intelligent (I could go on forever) and wonderful mini-quests just like they want them to be, thus making them so much more fun to solve because you won't stumble onto inconsistancies created by above mentioned limits and rules, that breaks the otherwise, sometimes atleast, weave of the story.

[Yavathol]

I should point out that it isn't as if I never quest at all - it's just that it takes either a well -done quest or a worthwhile reward at the end for me.  Since, as a knight, I am rather equipment dependent, I do like to keep a significant amount of xp available so I can use certain items.  Nannypoints, as has been pointed out, doesn't help much with that.  

Also, as has continuously come up, many of the older quests are the ones that have been altered so much as to be problematic for those who never saw the original incarnation of it.
As a case in point - I did do Mirage's quest and found it extremely well-crafted, logical and without bugs or random elements (Kudos to Mirage!).  That was a quest worth doing because it was fun and because solving it gives a certain extra something that comes in handy for me.
I have already pointed out that I failed to complete a quest after combing the area many times over and it was only through this forum I learned it was because the wheelbarrow can NOT be found until you have progressed to a certain point.  

Now besides defying all logic, if you were not around as a player early enough to even know there was a wheelbarrow, this has just made the quest quite a bit more difficult.  Might as well let Wizzes shout "Guess what's in my pocket for 150 qp!"
Personally, I won't waste my time attempting quests like this - I understand it's not the creator's fault, but why should I become frustrated about not being able to solve the quest when I am not even allowed to see the pieces I should be making the connections with?  

I know that players who predated me see this from a different context, and I know some newer players who truly enjoy questing, but I'll just stick to the puzzles and exploring.  On a side note, if certain items were to become qp dependent, it wouldn't encourage me to begin questing really, not unless it seemed a reasonable amount to me.  Instead, it would encourage me to use other items.

[Snafu]

Might as well let Wizzes shout "Guess what's in my pocket for 150 qp!"

Ummmmmm....actually....that's very similar to Profezzorn's quest: Inspire Profezzorn. He pretty much got the chance to give anyone he wanted qp with that one.

/Snafu

[Yavathol]

Doh!  Well, did you have to actually guess what was in his pocket - without any help of course since that would be quest help?

 

[Carrion]

Doh!  Well, did you have to actually guess what was in his pocket - without any help of course since that would be quest help?

 

Reminds me of one of my Unreal Tournament key-bound messages: 'Is that a redeemer in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?'... (Hard to imagine Prof, who's about 1.55 - 1.60 or thereabout, with a redeemer in his pocket though...)

[Maggs]

As I said in another thread, Banshees' idea of making items appear only at certain points in a quest is not to my liking. There are, however, many quests like this (because she maintains them all).

Once you know that she favours this approach you just need to bear it in mind when questing. If you search something and get the message 'you find nothing' (or the like), then mark the area and try and search it later.

Its a shame if people are put off questing. Nannys quest are/were always great assets.

M

PS Puzzles are almost worth a thread on their own, I agree totally with whats been said so far.

[Snafu]

Doh!  Well, did you have to actually guess what was in his pocket - without any help of course since that would be quest help?

 

Hmmm...if a quest no longer exists...and it is discussed in its gory detail...would that be quest help? (much less wiz-info )

/Snafu

[Labyrinth]

I actually miss the the old woman who would tell you about how many puzzles you had done and would give a list of players and the number of puzzles solved (Used to be in vincent's area and was also the central part of one of his puzzles).

I miss that I used to be able wash my feet with the rag found in vincent's basement.  I could rarely find the mat on the porch to wipe my muddy feet, so the rag provided another way to get in. Nowadays when I try to do it it says I can't.  

[Maggs]

Thanks for all those that replied - which wasn't many on the subject of QP reqs.

Personally, I think linking the acquisition of game levels to that of Quest Points was one of the stupidest ideas since the infamous 'lets try a PK week and see what happens'. People were forced to quest, and more experienced players were almost encouraged to 'help' younger players through quest help/sheets.

An ex-admin told me that (whilst mortal) he collated a _total_ set of quest sheets and sent them to new players in his guild because he thought it was helping. In a sense it was. In a sense it was flattering to Nanny that people still wanted to play regardless of the fact that it forced them into a play style that they disliked. In fact it killed questing as an achievement in the eyes of the admin.

To me, questing should be encouraged though reward in the Nannypoint system. The problem is, what are Nannypoints worth? I mean what can you buy with them? At the moment, they let you make paragon a little earlier, but thats really not much. The paragon club is just that - a club. NPs exist at game level and should be valued/spent/rewarded at that level. To me, the best way forward would be to scrap the paragon club and allow a much greater number of game levels, each bought with NP.

That way, players would be better rewarded (at game level) for Questing effort, and NPs would make sense.

M

[Snafu]

The Paragon 'club' today is not what I think they intended. It takes the same place as the 'Top Players' list nowadays and the 'Top Players' list has been that way since they QP a requirement and linked to leveling. You had a bunch of powerplayers who would cheat (yes, a lot of them did...but not all) to get to the top by using sheets and other methods. In fact, most of the Top Players were multiple characters of same person(s). At one point, I believe half the list was just a handful of physical people. As for the level system. The level system as it is now is a holdback from the old days (thanks to its LPMUD heritage). Most 2.4.5 mudlib muds back in the early days had a leveling system of 1-19 for mortals and wizards after that. Nanny went a step forward in 1995 or so by implementing more Wizard levels and making it more defined. It took a good deal of coding to get that accomplished. Most code in the Mud, I believe, consider 20 and above for level to mean wizard. It would require a complete recode of not only the mudlib, but most of the Wizards' code to get a new leveling system in place. There may be other ways, of course.

It could be done, if there were enough admin interested in the idea to try to make it work. It would require looking over almost every piece of code on the Mud. (of course this is just my opinion - admin may know more than I do on the issue). I've seen other muds where Wizard levels didn't start until level 100 or on some, even higher. I don't think they anticipated needing more than 19 levels for mortals when the Mud was started.

I would like to see something like that implemented as it may make playing the game more interesting. But then comes the discussion..ok..if we raise the levels..do we raise the stats..and if we raise the stats..wouldn't that require raising monster stats, etc. This brings in a lot of inflation. It would require a lot of careful thought into implementation. I like the idea though. Good idea Maggs.

We do need some features put into the Mud which would not only bring new players but make the current/new players WANT to stay. Being a text game, Nanny has lost a lot of people due to graphical games and the MMORPGs that now exist. I, for one, stay on Nanny because of all of the interesting people I have met through Nanny (on Nanny and in RL). I will continue to come to Nanny out of loyalty to the game and to my friends.

/Snafu