Spamfunet Nanny Forum

Nanny's pk scene surely needs some improvement  :!: in fact this scene is almost gone and nobody's wondering why. What i'd like to see is a little more interest from the immortals for this aspect.
Imagine  :!: what option does Nanny have concerning this matter? There are 2 arenas for 1-1 fights wich raise little interest ... the lack of options like moving...hiding...surprising...setting traps, all the things a true pk'er should know...just a boring 1-1 fight. And the becomepk option...well...that's great...imagine a newbie...excited about the pk scene and banishing his angel...he's toasted, the lack of experience has it's word. There are 2-3 players who RULE the pk and toast any newbie trying to join the game.
So...solutions to get out this circle and bring life to this game!
Would'nt be nice to have a "training area" for the newbie pk'ers? To encourage people...let them "taste" the adrenaline and get used to this totally new kind of playing? Maybe even draw new players to Nanny.
And even increase the rewards a pk'er gets. The pk-club rankings are not by far motivating enough.
This idea seems great to me...i'm sure there are ways of implementing it...the rest is imagination. The only thing we all have...PLENTY  :)

You surprise me, Fenix! This was really some good points :) I like the idea of 'newbie PK training', but with REAL deaths of course. Problem will of course be that there will be a lot of second chars to experienced players that will kill every real newbie... Bah... The (one) real problem is that there are people that will ruin just about every great idea/feature :(

Well...the REAL death is just the problem why unexperienced players won't pk. A score system could be implemented so the REAL death will occur only when you achieve a score(sort of GRADUATE). Thus the old pk's seconds won't have the pleasure of killin anyone until the player is ready to face them.[/quote]

There already is a place where you can go to fight another player and not get killed...  or at least there used to be, haven't been there for a bit I admit...  :?  So anyone who wants to try a fight with someone, and just lose HP and maybe some cash, then there is at least one place they can try... :)

if that place is Dannoc's Arena...then you are missing the whole point of this topic.
If you know another place that meets the req. please advertise it...it really needs some advertising since i've never heard of it  :?

Maelstrom created a PK area. It consists of many rooms. I wouldn't call it
a newbie area though, and it isn't "safe".

There was also one in Finniadan's(sp?).

I haven't been to either in ages, so I can't swear they still exist. In both, you can lose levels and neither has any safe church.

The problem with permanent PK was the headache to admins due to the
numerous complaints it generated. If you truly love PK, visit one of those
areas, invite your friends and rivals. Church and Green are so much more
peaceful now.

For the record, both appear to still be open.  I can definately vouch for Maelstorm's being there as recently as a couple of weeks ago.

As a fair warning, if you do not wish to get involved in PK, or if your guild has specific mandates against it, be very wary in these areas as all players are considered PK once inside.  As a further note of caution, beware your orbs and certain items while in these areas.  Sometimes items don't discriminate between friends and enemies.

Maelstorm's and Finnaidain's areas are both playerkilling-allowed areas, but they are for real and a death is a death ... plus both are quite a bit off into the jungle, so to speak, to be newbie friendly.

Back to the problem with playerkilling.

Facts -- Killing someone else, which is the whole point of being able to playerkill, is not an act of kindness or mercy. It's a brutal twist to the game, a different playing style and a different game.

Having said that, I don't understand, at all, the standpoint the admins have on playerkilling. They are trying to make it a 'friendly' thing, which, by definition, it is not, and there already are ways to express 'friendly fighting' in the mud, playerkilling was and is for those who like to fight for real.

The current system is like playing truth & dare, picking dare and when you get a dare you don't like -- Well, you just pass on it, until you get a dare you fancy (ie, completely destroying whatever point there was to the game in the first place).

Can't but love that statement :) I'd turn it around and say 'playerkilling is for those that do not want to fight for real, but rather want to feel big and mean in front of a computer screen' ;)

(Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're all geeks, I know.)

Well of course you're right, but what I meant, of course, was to point out the huge difference in fighting an NPC that perhaps moves a couple of rooms and uses very predictable specials, to that of fighting an intelligent person behind a keyboard, who can do pretty much anything ;)

But point taken, nothing 'real' about it :)

I know, just couldn't resist! It's definitely more difficult to kill a 'real' player (unless some NPC instakills you), but it doesn't take THAT much supremecy to PK either, especially nowadays when most people use clients... You have your heal speedwalks (perhaps h1, h2, etc...), you have your speedwalks to common places where your opponent might be (preferably fighting some monster and in bad shape), you have your speedwalks to safe places... You have actions for different situations, that the client will react upon... The difficulty is perhaps most in setting up your client sometimes! (This is of course an art in itself, and might be quite intriguing!) But, yes, it IS harder to kill a player, and definitely more fun.

Now what about the freedom of choice? why do the admins insist that a Death should be a Death? It's not easy to reach lvl 19 not to speak about plevels. A death costs you hours and hours of "hard playing"  :) The pk scene is unreacheable for the most players here because they are AFRAID to die (which is a primal instinct isn't it?) . So why don't create a "safe" pk zone where those players can have fun too? Those who dare to die may die! Those who wanna kill rabbits kill rabbits...those who wanna safe pk then safe pk...what's wrong with it? Freedom of choice right?

*Laugh* and i love your way of turning it, Carrion :)

The whole idea of soft pk is utterly pathetic. And the "reasons" for it even more so. Oh, some people are complaing about getting killed over and over?
Ignore it then. I believe that was written in the help regarding the old pk system. 'Once you have abolished your angel you are on your own, and any complains you may have will be ignored'. Riiight......
And the thing about "losing" players? Lol...f*cking hilarious. If you dont have the motivation to create a new char that isnt PK, then you probably wouldnt last around the MUD for very long anyway.
No. The only thing the new "system" did was removing an interesting style of playing from the game. Of course it might have died out anyway, with the loss of players that seems to come with more "advanced" games and stuff, but well, you never know.

the point of "soft" pk and increased pk rewards is for people to experience pk , eventually enjoy it and then enter the true pk world wich is kin of empty don't u think Allyene? hope u love being the only pk in the mud. At least you are the best!  :twisted:

by the way...you may as well close this topic becouse the echo was as lame as i expected to be.

Just one thing, most old and less old PKers seem to think the soft-PK is bad. Why don't all those PKers just make themselves permanent PKers, then there would be more PKers in the game, and they would probably have more of the 'old' feeling of PK... There would probably be no permanent newbie PKers, but what would the point be in killing someone much weaker anyway? No thrill there, I'd say. And if you start to loose and drop levels, just start another player, as Allyene wrote, there's not much to it! Ehm, did I miss something? (I know, Fenix, this wasn't your initial issue, but I thought it would fit in your thread nicely.)

Whatever. From my point of view, the "Soft" pk system shows that the loudest whiners always gets their way in the end.
Lol. A couple of months ago a friend accidently "stole" a kill from some low level guy, who immiedeatly(?) whined to Brom about it, even though being explained to that it was an accident, and it resulted in an interesting conversion between my friend and Brom, where the guy almost got banished for that little accident. Point is... the "old", experienced players are always wrong, the new who hasnt even spent a couple of days are always right. And to this I can add that the "new" player in this case isnt that new at all. He probably just saw a chance to get the "stealer" into trouble.
Well, this was awfully off-topic.   :twisted:

There once was a PK area in Kate's area, which was still there in 2001, or whenever I last looked.

There were problems with the old PK system, as I understand, but its clear that the replacement has killed off the play style almost completely. I have never been interested in the style, but surely the game suffers when the choice of play style becomes more limited?

In short, the more the styles the greater the player retention?

Well, who knows/cares

M

If you mean one of the 'concentrate' rooms, yes, but in 2001/2002 (not sure) it was heavily abused by Lepers to train some of their skills ... so not sure it's still intact.

Probably a few more tucked away somewhere, in old, almost forgotten areas :)

Fenix, being pk without losing when dying is not pk. Pk comes from playerkilling, you know.
If anyone goes hard pk now it's just a big disadvantage. If you die, fresh maxed chars will hunt you. If they kill you, you prolly will have a hard time revenging as they're pk only when they feel strong. That's NOT pk.



Why? When you have so many chars, especially now as without qp you can advance really fast. Why not 'sacrificing' one (becoming pk)? Or two, out of 5, or 10. I fail to see the problem. Every pk had a start. Prolly a rough one. With time, you just get better. You get killed less often, and you start getting a few kills, as you learn tricks or perhaps pay more for a better connection  :twisted:

Pk is way way too soft already. Do you want to make it softer? Should players gain when dying perhaps? I fail to see your point here.

Kherec, we all know you're big, mighty and famous. The point is that people were searching for monks and they were always welcome in parties. I did not have a high monk but seen my rl friends, logging on and getting tells at a regular basis from people who wanted to party with them. Low, and high players as well. Unknown, and known ones. You might've been the only exception, I obviously missed that. I couldn't care less, either. That is not why I am following this thread.

Fenix, you're prolly frustrated as you got killed so many times. I can understand that, but a topic like this won't make you a better pk. Perseverence could. Each death helps in getting better, at least the way I've experienced it. I am a lousy pk. I still die but sometimes because of a connection or other factors. The idea is that I am not getting so many surprises I did when started.

Hmmm... I actually thought Fenix were talking about NEWBIES, not experienced players that hadn't PKed before... 'cause if you're talking experienced players, then you're obviously correct more or less. But I'd imagine that just about every experienced player that is interested in PK already have at least one PK, so that makes this discussion pointless :(

Ok...i get the point...maybe i'm a newbie indeed( only 3 and a half years around) and maybe i'm a whiner and a coward and anything Allyene and the other oldies try to insinuate but one thing is sure...i'm not afraid of dying , done it countless times, entered the pk world as a TOTAL newbie and learned from my mistakes...had ENORMOUS patience but as it can be seen there aren't many others that are willing to try this road. Things would have been much easier if instead of getting killed by you Allyene or your seconds i'd had the opportunity to train my play style first.
So the point is...i'm not trying to obtain soft pk option for myself...i don't enjoy it NOW and believe me nothing would make me happier than kill your proud ass! (in Nanny ofcourse  :twisted: ).
This option is NEWBIE only!!!
That's all i have to say...gettin' tired here.

I am _finally_ beginning to understand your rhetorical sense humour Qwer, it has taken a while I agree.

The points that Fenix is making seem valid to me. One of the main problems with the system as it was was that many of the top PKers formed alliances and teamed up to stomp new Pkers right from the start. That was equally (if not more) insiduous than the situation at present.

The problem at the moment seems to be that there are so few PKers available to fight at any time, given that people can bounce in and out of the style. Fenix is proposing a system to encourage more players to get interested in it, which seems worthwhile to me.

It does rather rely on the Admin wanting to encourage the play style however, which I do not believe is the case,

M

I didnt mention YOUR name anywhere, Fenix.
When I say "Whiners", thats the guys who obviously spammed the admin with "Oh no! I became PK and now I'm getting killed every hour, and I'm both utterly unable to read the help on PK'ing, or to create a new char!!!!!"
Dunno if you did, but I think it was before your time.
Anyway, my main grudge is with the Admin for really caring about whine like that, and, now, when we see the effect, is totally unwilling to even change it back to what it was. Sure, I don't expect the playerkilling to become what it was just like that, but what's there to lose? Right now there is no PK at all anyway, and atleast it would once again be what it was meant to be.
A risky and different way of life with no turning back whenever it feels convenient.

Usually I don't mean to  offend people with what I say, I'm just trying to make a point, so I try to 'colour' things a bit.

I think there was some good ideas here.
Why not do a little bit of both?

Ex. Make the PK system a little bit like in the old days, AND make the first 5 times you get killed free (no loss of XP or lvl). Then you should get a little bit time to adjust to the new style of playing. So.. when you get killed for the 6’Th time you die for real and have no more newbie advantages.

I was thinking, I would love to try out PK for real, but I already know I suck, I've tried a bit already. As I play a Cultist, Levels/Stats are quite a jiffy, since I need to trance after making about 2-3 kills and then go sit for a couple of minutes again.

But I was thinking more of a system of rewards. Might be a bit panzy-like but it might encourage players to try PKing.

Say you could enter a PK-status by buying the right to kill. Say 300k xp and 150k gold? When paid you'd be able to pk ALL other pk's. However these "softers" wouldn't loose level/stats but they'd loose an amount of exp and gold.
To make it more interesting for the Real-PK's a greater reward would be giving to those who killed a softer.

Say I got "killed" by Allyene, then he would gain, I don't know.. my paid amount to enter?

If I do well as a softer the entering price would go up and in the end I might go over to full pk-status since getting 2M xp for pking might be a pain in the butt.

Ofc, only suggestion...
lemme know :)
//Kenpo, reigning Supreme

Well since no one has replied for over three years, its safe for me to post since I won't be made fun of.

Personally, I don't think there should be a 'soft pk' area to encourage players to pk. If someone wants to pk they take the risk and do it. The only time I ever regretting pking was when I was tricked into doing it when I first started the mud. Pking is a thrill, and takes trial and error to be somewhat decent at it. The reason a lot of people aren't pking anymore is because the ones around now have never had the interest, or have tried and didn't like it for some reason. When I made my first leper to PLM and decided to pk it was because I was intrigued and I knew what I was getting into....endlessly hunted watch your steps and the 'who' list every minute, watch the pk club to see if any members or non members have signed on. One thing I have never done though is bitch about being a playerkiller because I made the choice its something I wanted to experience.

If a noob decides to pk and gets hunted, depending on how the person is behind the keyboard is how they will react to the monster that is playerkilling. It makes is all worth it when you finally catch someone slipping and get a kill of your own. Creating areas for people to be comfortable playerkilling without losing stats or whatnot is counter productive because then they'll probably bitch and moan when they experience their first death.

I like the current system. Not having to lose stats and experience is well worth anyone trying it out, of course its permanent though so no going back. I would give up 50k and my eq to save hours spending trying to get a paragon level back. I know old pkers don't like it, but its better than having an option to only go pk for a week or so and then get your angel back.

The reward for anyone playerkilling is the kill itself. There is no point to soften a system designed to hunt and kill other players because then it takes away from the actual purpose of putting your neck on the line and seeing what happens. You win you lose you live you die but you learn from your mistakes.

D